[Tagging] Docks - Change to use the natural/water schema?

Sun Apr 3 21:56:59 UTC 2022

The problem with waterway=dock is that it is used for several different
things, only some of which are normally areas of inland water.

Recall that natural=water is used for the area of "Any inland body of
water" But this is not consistent with how waterway=dock is used:

1) many waterway=dock areas are part of the sea, because the tag is often
used to tag a named part of a harbor, such as a slip or berth or quay, or
for marines (normally tagged leisure=marina) This was not the original
intention of use for waterway=dock but it is quite common (for example, see
the usage around Venice Italy). Such areas should not get the tag
natural=water because they should be outside of the natural=coastline. Also
many are mapped only as a node because they do not have clearly defined
outer limits, but natural=water must be mapped as an area.

2) Other waterway=dock features are also tagged with man_made=pier or are
clearly meant to represent floating or elevated piers. Unfortunately this
is the common meaning of the word "dock" in North American English. All the
examples around Portland Oregon are this usage, for example. These cannot
be tagged natural=water, obviously, though they should mostly be re-tagged
as man_made=pier (or man_made=quay rarely)

3)  dry docks and floating (dry) docks are tagged with waterway=dock and
dock=drydock / floating. A floating dock is certainly not an area of water,
is it like a kind of barge or vessel which is used to lift boats or ships
out of the water for servicing. And a dry dock appears to be dry land 99%
of the time in most cases. Some could be considered an intermittent water
area like an ephemeral lake or a flood control basin, but only if the dry
dock is still functional.

4) Tidal docks, which are also confusingly called "floating" docks or
harbours in parts of the UK, fit the current definition of "an enclosed
area of water for ships and other craft within which the height of the
water can be managed" by the use of tidal gates or locks. This could be
tagged as natural=water plus a new tag like water=tidal_dock

5) The term "dock" is also used for ship or boat yards, which may contain
dry docks but also areas of dry land used for shipbuilding, repair and
maintenance. These might be tagged now as waterway=boatyard or landuse=port
or landuse=industrial + industrial=shipyard or industrial=port, but some
are tagged waterway=dock

So if we wish to retag these features, not all can be changed to
natural=water, some ought to be man_made=pier or =quay, some should be a
tag for harbours which are not marinas (harbour=yes  and seamark
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:seamark>=harbour
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:seamark%3Dharbour&action=edit&redlink=1>
are in use but is not clearly defined), and some should be a new tag like
man_made=drydock or floating_drydock, to replace the current diverse uses
of this tag.

I would support developing more specific tags, because in the current
situation it is unclear what is meant when you see the tag waterway=dock,
it is always necessary to check the surroundings and additional tags. But a
single tag will not work well, especially not with natural=water.

- Joseph Eisenberg

(I will also re-open discussion about removing the water color tagging for
these areas in the openstreetmap-carto style, since it is clear that many
or most of these features are not inland water areas)

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 8:07 AM Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 01/04/2022 22:19, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
>
> waterway=* have several water=related objects which are not water
>
>
> That's not a reason not to fix waterway=dock
>
>
> water=* accompanies natural=water
>
>
> Yes, and your point is?
>
>
> all docks are water-related, not all of them are natural=water objects
>
>
> There are many 'none natural' objects tagged as natural. Reservoirs for
> instance. It's the water that's classed as natural, not its container.
>
> DaveF
>
>
>
> Apr 1, 2022, 17:19 by tagging at openstreetmap.org:
>
> That's really irrelevant to this proposal of moving the dock tag from
> waterway=  to water= which are both water features.
>
> DaveF
>
>
> On 01/04/2022 15:26, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>
> Only some types of docks contain water. A dry dock is usually dry, a
> floating dock is also not a water feature .
>
> From the wiki page:
>
>
>    - dock <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:dock>=tidal
>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:dock%3Dtidal> - For a tidal
>    dock, where the dock holds a stable water level in a basin, in order to
>    make loading and offloading of ships easier, or to have a safe harbour in
>    areas with a large tidal difference.
>    - dock <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:dock>=drydock
>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:dock%3Ddrydock> - Usually a
>    maintenance dock where ships can enter to do inspections and maintenance on
>    the wet surface of the hull.
>    - dock <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:dock>=floating
>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:dock%3Dfloating> - Floating
>    docks are usually a large floating structure with the purpose to lift a
>    vessel out of the water for maintenance or inspections of the wet surface
>    of the hull
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 9:29 AM Dave F via Tagging <
> tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> The dock tag is currently using the waterway schema.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Ddock
>
> As enclosed water features, "have largely been replaced by natural=water
> + water=lake/river" etc, and the waterway tag is largely for linear
> objects, what, if any, are the reasons for maintaining 'dock' as a
> waterway?
>
> DaveF
>
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