[Tagging] bicycle traffic is banned in one direction - only on carriageway
Sebastian Gürtler
sebastian.guertler at gmx.de
Mon Apr 11 19:36:27 UTC 2022
Am 11.04.22 um 10:38 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging:
> L1b is missing "and cycling on the left
> (on
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cycle_lanes_both_right.svg
> image)
> carriageway lane is forbidden, while cycling on the right carriageway
> lane is not"
> info.
>
> It matters in case where lane is not automatically utterly banning
> cycling on carriageway.
>
> bicycle=use_sidepath is for something different AND mapping bicycle
> lane as separate
> way is wrong.
>
I agree. I have to admit that I have never seen this constellation in
real life so far (mostly riding in the last years in the surrounding 70
km of Bielefeld).
The example in the wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Neuss_Stephanstr_dsc01113.jpg
has some features of a separate way, which would justify a separate
mapping in my opinion. (Commentary there: "Note: The Cycle Lane is part
of the highway but somehow separated by rubber elements. In Germa[n]y,
some kind of separation is mandatory as long [a]s the speed limit is
above 30 km/h.")
Concerning this special case:
I looked up the street on the picture - currently it is tagged as
bicycle=use_sidepath foot=use_sidepath ( :-| ) and the cycle lanes
together with the footway tagged wrongly with segregated=no (this tag
unchanged since 2010, maybe the segregation is newer...). 2013 someone
deleted a "cycleway=track", 2 years ago someone added the lights...
In this example it would be sensible to keep the own way because it
separates completely from the carriageway a few 100 m farther away. I
wouldn't say that in this case this is wrong. Otherwise you would have
to lead the cycleway onto the street, create a connection from the
street to the separating cycleway the and lead the way back from the
street again. That describes the situation worse than the actual
mapping. (carriageway: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775056139
cycleway/footway: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/43112473). (I put a
note on the map that it may be discussed and fixed by the local mappers).
> Apr 11, 2022, 00:50 by sebastian.guertler at gmx.de:
>
> It seems to me that you describe case L1b in the wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle#Cycle_lanes_in_bidirectional_motor_car_roads
>
> I think there is no reason to use another tagging as described
> there, (cycleway:right=lane cycleway:right:oneway=no, without the
> "bicycle:oneway=yes").
>
> bicycle:oneway=yes tells a router that this way is only viable for
> bicycles in the direction of that way, but on the main carriageway
> they are completely banned, and finally the tag
> cycleway:right:oneway=no is conflicting.
>
> It isn't clear to me, what you would want to say with the
> "bicycle:oneway=yes". Do you mean each single lane? But this isn't
> even for the other vehicles the use of the tag. For cars it is the
> normal situation that if there are two lanes and it isn't oneway,
> that you use each lane just in one direction, exceptions only in
> overtaking.
>
> To state that the use of the tracks is compulsory you could at the
> moment use bicycle=use_sidepath and give the track additional ways
> with highway=cycleway. (See
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bicycle%3Duse_sidepath).
>
> Greetings, Sebastian
>
> Am 10.04.22 um 17:25 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging:
>> both cases may occur (and would be tagged with an independent
>> property)
>>
>>
>> Apr 10, 2022, 17:17 by voschix at gmail.com:
>>
>> Is the use of the cycle lane mandatory for bicycles in both
>> directions? Or can cyclist also ride in the allowed direction
>> on the carriageway?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 at 16:44, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
>> <tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>> There could be a case where:
>>
>> - one side of road has traffic lane where cars can travel
>> but bicycles are banned
>> - another side of road has cycleway lanes allowing travel
>> in both directions
>>
>> It can be mapped as
>>
>> highway=*
>> cycleway:right=lane
>>
>> but it is not representing full info and is missing
>> substantial part of the situation.
>>
>> Can it be mapped as
>>
>> highway=*
>> cycleway:right=lane
>> cycleway:right:oneway=no
>> bicycle:oneway=yes
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I dislike this tagging as it makes necessary to check
>> even more tags to answer
>> simple "can bicycles travel in this direction" but I have
>> no idea how to tag it better.
>>
>> Is there some other way to represent this?
>>
>> (it is partial repeat of
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-March/thread.html#64148
>> but it was not answered clearly.
>>
>> I am asking as I just discovered that need to decide on
>> that to implement
>> https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/3544
>>
>> It appears to be not described at
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:oneway
>> or https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle
>> )
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