[Tagging] Edits to "names" page following last year's discussion (was: Re: I am reverting an edit to the "Names" page on the Wiki)

[Andy Townsend]

Sorry to dredge this up again, but what seems to have happened is:

Some edits to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names by 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgo_eiu were reverted 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2368644&oldid=2351644 
and there was discussion on this list at 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-August/065130.html 
.  Before the discussion went off-topic, there was broad agreement with 
the revert.

They then made essentially the same edit again.  In particular 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2371288&oldid=2368814 
changes "Avoid Transliteration" (which is the OSM norm) to 
"Transliteration" (which is not).

It would of course be entirely reasonable to note that when a particular 
language has multiple orthographies that that should to be taken into 
account (see for example the ongoing discussion at 
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/multilingual-names-in-bulgaria/98762 
about how names should be handled in Bulgaria).  However, most languages 
only have one form of writing in very wide use, so this should at best 
be a footnote or a bracketed comment on the main page.

A new OSM editor should not be confused by the content of something as 
basic as the "names" page in the OSM wiki. Currently, they probably will be.

I believe that what needs to happen is essentially a revert of the 
changes at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2371288&oldid=2368814 
, whilst ensuring that the "some countries" paragraph at the end covers 
those rarer cases where transliteration is the norm.

It'd be great if someone who is invested in the value of the OSM wiki 
would make the relevant edit*, rather than me, who thinks that it is 
(following edits such as this) quite often unhelpful and unfortunately 
sometimes best ignored.  However, I'll do it if no one else will.

Best Regards,

Andy

(for the avoidance of any doubt, writing in an entirely personal capacity)

* like Harry Wood did with this section, after significant consultation, 
back in 2014


On 12/08/2022 12:44, Clay Smalley wrote:
> Regardless of the topic, personal attacks are not necessary. You don't 
> build consensus by publicly shaming other contributors.
>
> -Clay
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 4:15 AM bgo_eiu (OSM mailing list email) via 
> Tagging <tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>     The topic at hand is an update I made to the wiki. Anyone is free
>     to discuss this on the Wiki, where this discussion belongs.
>
>     --
>     https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/bgo_eiu
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgo_eiu
>
>     Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>
>     ------- Original Message -------
>     On Thursday, August 11th, 2022 at 5:08 PM, Richard Fairhurst
>     <richard at systemed.net> wrote:
>
>>     bgo_eiu wrote:
>>     > I don't think many people have ever agreed with your whining
>>     > on here. I notice people complain about your Wiki edits on
>>     > Slack regularly.
>>
>>     This is not how we conduct ourselves on here. Please desist.
>>
>>     Richard
>>     sporadic tagging@ list admin
>
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