[talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names
Reg Tydell
regtydell at bigpond.com
Sat Jan 27 05:49:46 UTC 2018
Hello all,
By coincidence I noticed a Twitter post today from @davidparis ("Paris from on line”) about an iOS app called "Welcome to Country", which is produced by Weerianna Street Media (@WeeriannaStreetMedia). The app is still in its early days, but it seems a great idea and perhaps there’s scope for OSM Australia and WSM to collaborate on mapping indigenous communities and languages? David Dean, perhaps WSM would be a good place to start to get further information? Another source of information about indigenous languages in Australia is SILA (www.sila.org.au).
There isn’t (yet?) an Android version of the app, and when I went to the App Store on my iPad searching for "Welcome to Country” there wasn’t a result, but the link to the iTunes Store in the @davidparis post does work (although perhaps it’s out of date, because the latest changes to iOS mean you can’t manage iOS apps from iTunes).
Regards,
Reg Tydell
On 27 Jan 2018, at 4:09 pm, talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org wrote:
Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
talk-au at openstreetmap.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
talk-au-owner at openstreetmap.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Mapping Indigenous Place Names (Andrew Harvey)
2. Re: Mapping Indigenous Place Names (David Dean)
3. Re: Mapping Indigenous Place Names (David Dean)
4. Re: Mapping Indigenous Place Names (Warin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 09:44:39 +1100
From: Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>
To: OSM Australian Talk List <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names
Message-ID:
<CAD5Vjsva8BaHC_VXaJKeshY7unv_MtMLqP9DLdO2WQfKegd8XQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On 26 January 2018 at 23:33, David Dean <ddean at ieee.org> wrote:
> Absolutely. If the more specific language code is known, it should be used.
>
Indeed Tasmania uses a lot of name:xtz eg.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/123026960 and
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/vql, Uluru uses name:pjt, hopefully there are a
lot more. I think name:aus should only really be used if you don't know
which more specific ISO code to use.
On 27 January 2018 at 07:53, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Should the English language ones be recorded as name:eng=Ayers Rock ?
>
I think they may be entered as alt_name, possibly they also should be
> recorded as name:eng too (a duplication).
>
name:eng and name:en are the same thing according to
https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/langcodes_name.php?code_ID=130
The English name of Uluru is Uluru not Ayers Rock. I'd be in favour of
moving Ayers Rock to the old name. official_name could still be "Uluru /
Ayers Rock" as that's what's it's officially designated as.
I'd prefer we didn't use name=Uluru (Ayers Rocks) and instead just used
name=Uluru as it should be left up to data consumers how they want to
display alternate names, with Ayers Rock either as old_name or alt_name.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20180127/17246232/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 04:03:38 +0000
From: David Dean <ddean at ieee.org>
To: OSM Australian Talk List <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names
Message-ID:
<CAGNy6GUwpNobQ7-u2O5NwY6uDqugQjgaXSwBGWJ-zbOYnPnhRw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the great responses. I'm glad I kicked off this thread.
I don't think there is a problem with indicating a name:aus tag if the
local aboriginal name for an area/feature is known, but you haven't done
further research to find the actual language code applicable.
However, it should be a goal to update all name:aus tags to move them to
the appropriate real tags based on the iso639-3 tags. I'm not sure at that
stage whether the name:aus tags would be useful to stay or not. Any ideas?
I am pushing this myself, as I want to build a rendering of OSM that is
focused on the local indigenous knowledge across the country, but I guess
this means I'm going to need to do a bit more work to find out the iso639-3
tags for all indigenous languages in Australia, and maybe even some idea of
what tags are local to what areas.
This is clearly not going to be trivial, but what that's worth doing is? :)
- David
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 08:45 Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 January 2018 at 23:33, David Dean <ddean at ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Absolutely. If the more specific language code is known, it should be
>> used.
>>
>
> Indeed Tasmania uses a lot of name:xtz eg.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/123026960 and
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/vql, Uluru uses name:pjt, hopefully there are
> a lot more. I think name:aus should only really be used if you don't know
> which more specific ISO code to use.
>
> On 27 January 2018 at 07:53, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Should the English language ones be recorded as name:eng=Ayers Rock ?
>>
> I think they may be entered as alt_name, possibly they also should be
>> recorded as name:eng too (a duplication).
>>
>
> name:eng and name:en are the same thing according to
> https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/langcodes_name.php?code_ID=130
>
> The English name of Uluru is Uluru not Ayers Rock. I'd be in favour of
> moving Ayers Rock to the old name. official_name could still be "Uluru /
> Ayers Rock" as that's what's it's officially designated as.
>
> I'd prefer we didn't use name=Uluru (Ayers Rocks) and instead just used
> name=Uluru as it should be left up to data consumers how they want to
> display alternate names, with Ayers Rock either as old_name or alt_name.
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
--
http://dbdean.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20180127/532901bc/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 04:08:05 +0000
From: David Dean <ddean at ieee.org>
To: OSM Australian Talk List <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names
Message-ID:
<CAGNy6GUaDeZsTp0npvYi2FwfWYYNJCWNU2h=DC7o=vRQx3WmcA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Oh,
And one more thing: At its best OpenStreetMap is about local mappers
mapping what is of interest to them, so we should be attempting to engage
with out local indigenous community and asking them what their local
language is and what features in OSM (or that we can add to OSM) are
important to them.
Some of this might stretch the 'verifiable on the ground' rule a little,
but I think if there is significant local knowledge, it is fair game for
the map.
- David
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 14:03 David Dean <ddean at ieee.org> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> Thanks for the great responses. I'm glad I kicked off this thread.
>
> I don't think there is a problem with indicating a name:aus tag if the
> local aboriginal name for an area/feature is known, but you haven't done
> further research to find the actual language code applicable.
>
> However, it should be a goal to update all name:aus tags to move them to
> the appropriate real tags based on the iso639-3 tags. I'm not sure at that
> stage whether the name:aus tags would be useful to stay or not. Any ideas?
>
> I am pushing this myself, as I want to build a rendering of OSM that is
> focused on the local indigenous knowledge across the country, but I guess
> this means I'm going to need to do a bit more work to find out the iso639-3
> tags for all indigenous languages in Australia, and maybe even some idea of
> what tags are local to what areas.
>
> This is clearly not going to be trivial, but what that's worth doing is? :)
>
> - David
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 08:45 Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26 January 2018 at 23:33, David Dean <ddean at ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Absolutely. If the more specific language code is known, it should be
>>> used.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed Tasmania uses a lot of name:xtz eg.
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/123026960 and
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/vql, Uluru uses name:pjt, hopefully there
>> are a lot more. I think name:aus should only really be used if you don't
>> know which more specific ISO code to use.
>>
>> On 27 January 2018 at 07:53, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Should the English language ones be recorded as name:eng=Ayers Rock ?
>>>
>> I think they may be entered as alt_name, possibly they also should be
>>> recorded as name:eng too (a duplication).
>>>
>>
>> name:eng and name:en are the same thing according to
>> https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/langcodes_name.php?code_ID=130
>>
>> The English name of Uluru is Uluru not Ayers Rock. I'd be in favour of
>> moving Ayers Rock to the old name. official_name could still be "Uluru /
>> Ayers Rock" as that's what's it's officially designated as.
>>
>> I'd prefer we didn't use name=Uluru (Ayers Rocks) and instead just used
>> name=Uluru as it should be left up to data consumers how they want to
>> display alternate names, with Ayers Rock either as old_name or alt_name.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
> --
> http://dbdean.com
>
--
http://dbdean.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20180127/cdb3047b/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:08:56 +1100
From: Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>
To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names
Message-ID: <39c69e60-e9e0-149e-dc83-2fc05f518f8b at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
There can be problems with internet connectivity for remote communities
.. so getting participation can be difficult.
A local dump of data that can then be used on a server by others can be
very beneficial - reduces the remote network load and speeds the locals
response times.
Part of 'verifiable on the round' is asking a local.. if it is a local
doing the mapping then they are most of the way there.
The OSMwiki for local languages ..is
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
On 27-Jan-18 03:08 PM, David Dean wrote:
> Oh,
>
> And one more thing: At its best OpenStreetMap is about local mappers
> mapping what is of interest to them, so we should be attempting to
> engage with out local indigenous community and asking them what their
> local language is and what features in OSM (or that we can add to OSM)
> are important to them.
>
> Some of this might stretch the 'verifiable on the ground' rule a
> little, but I think if there is significant local knowledge, it is
> fair game for the map.
>
> - David
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 14:03 David Dean <ddean at ieee.org
> <mailto:ddean at ieee.org>> wrote:
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> Thanks for the great responses. I'm glad I kicked off this thread.
>
> I don't think there is a problem with indicating a name:aus tag if
> the local aboriginal name for an area/feature is known, but you
> haven't done further research to find the actual language code
> applicable.
>
> However, it should be a goal to update all name:aus tags to move
> them to the appropriate real tags based on the iso639-3 tags. I'm
> not sure at that stage whether the name:aus tags would be useful
> to stay or not. Any ideas?
>
> I am pushing this myself, as I want to build a rendering of OSM
> that is focused on the local indigenous knowledge across the
> country, but I guess this means I'm going to need to do a bit more
> work to find out the iso639-3 tags for all indigenous languages in
> Australia, and maybe even some idea of what tags are local to what
> areas.
>
> This is clearly not going to be trivial, but what that's worth
> doing is? :)
>
> - David
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 08:45 Andrew Harvey
> <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com <mailto:andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 26 January 2018 at 23:33, David Dean <ddean at ieee.org
> <mailto:ddean at ieee.org>> wrote:
>
> Absolutely. If the more specific language code is known,
> it should be used.
>
>
> Indeed Tasmania uses a lot of name:xtz eg.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/123026960 and
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/vql, Uluru uses name:pjt,
> hopefully there are a lot more. I think name:aus should only
> really be used if you don't know which more specific ISO code
> to use.
>
> On 27 January 2018 at 07:53, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Should the English language ones be recorded as
> name:eng=Ayers Rock ?
>
> I think they may be entered as alt_name, possibly they
> also should be recorded as name:eng too (a duplication).
>
>
> name:eng and name:en are the same thing according to
> https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/langcodes_name.php?code_ID=130
>
> The English name of Uluru is Uluru not Ayers Rock. I'd be in
> favour of moving Ayers Rock to the old name. official_name
> could still be "Uluru / Ayers Rock" as that's what's it's
> officially designated as.
>
> I'd prefer we didn't use name=Uluru (Ayers Rocks) and instead
> just used name=Uluru as it should be left up to data consumers
> how they want to display alternate names, with Ayers Rock
> either as old_name or alt_name.
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
> --
> http://dbdean.com
>
> --
> http://dbdean.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20180127/8b503465/attachment.html>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
------------------------------
End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 127, Issue 13
****************************************
More information about the Talk-au
mailing list