[talk-au] Aboriginal art sites

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Thu Apr 4 22:09:12 UTC 2019

On 05/04/19 08:02, Ian Sergeant wrote:
> Hi Sebastian,
> Thanks for your thoughts.  I'm sure we're all well intentioned.
> If I understand your proposal, what you're saying is we build a wiki 
> page that lists the relevant authority and what should not be mapped 
> in that area.  Then a local mapper would check against that when 
> mapping significant local features?
> So that raises two issues I see.
> Firstly, since it's defined in the negative it relies on someone 
> seeking out the local authority and recording their wishes. Rather 
> than imposing a positive obligation to seek permission. In that way it 
> seems a little different to what others seem to be proposing.
> Secondly, we may end up with a wiki page with the areas and 
> significant features all laid out.  Which may be counter to what we're 
> trying to achieve here.

+1 ...

Usually it will be a large area - many square kilometres rather than a 
small area.
The name of the 'tribe' should be enough for 'local' mappers to 
determine the area, some areas overlap which is a problem as you would 
need permission from both.

> Ian.
> From: Sebastian S.
> Sent: Thursday, April 4, 8:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Aboriginal art sites
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org, Graeme Fitzpatrick, Ian Sergeant
> Cc: OSM-Au
> I second that the elders wishes should be respected.
> With regards to documenting.
> One way would be to mark the local indigenous area/tribe/... And then 
> outline in the wiki what should not be mapped in order to respect the 
> wishes. I recall a recent blog post or Diary entry regarding 
> indigenous communities mapping.
> In a sense this falls in the same category as 'I don't want my 
> backyard shed or pool mapped from satellite images'. Although the 
> cultural aspects are not the same :-)

In some areas backyard pools can form a significant fire fighting 
resource .. and there is some merit in mapping them. Usually the pool 
owner signifies permission for this by placing a small sign at the 
property entrance that fire fighters can see.
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> On 3 April 2019 8:17:25 am AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> <graemefitz1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 20:27, Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:inas66%2Bosm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> How do we actually contact "local elders"?
>> Would have to be done "on the ground" in that local area
>>>   Where do we record their consent?
>> Possibly in Notes? Maybe the Oz Data Catalogue page 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue or similar?
>>>   What if they change their minds?
>> Then I think we would need to delete the entries, similar to the way 
>> that you can request your premises not be shown on Google Maps. I 
>> have seen a comment on the Tagging list that some town in the US 
>> requested that all it's minor streets be deleted from all online maps 
>> to prevent rat-runners from driving down them!
>>> Are we saying other mappers should delete these sites if they see 
>>> them on the map?  How do they know if approval was obtained?
>> I would hope that people have done things "properly". As mentioned 
>> though, if the site is advertised / signposted, then it's fine to 
>> map. But if you're walking in the Kimberley & find a cave full of 
>> paintings, then you should ask for approval before mapping them. This 
>> was discussed a while back about mapping a track up in that area, but 
>> I can't find the reference in the archives
>>> is this form of censorship practised anywhere else in OSM - maybe 
>>> for other indigenous people - that we could copy their model?
>> I don't know? I'll post the question on the Tagging list.
>>> P.S. It's Strait - not "Straight".
>> Thanks! Corrected :-)
>> Thanks
>> Graeme
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