[talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Greg Lauer]

Hi Daniel,

As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well as
an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...

The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly clear
- unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons Open
Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written) permission
from the copyright holder.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval


A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate that
they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the only way
OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to send them an
email asking if they will give permission to make there data available in
OSM. I can send you a template letter that explains the licensing
conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data set would be great as a
global dataset!

The use of OSM within a web service (such as the CWGC) has no relationship
to whether we can incorporate and/or import the said data sets into OSM.
Again unless explicit permission is given it will need to be requested.

Do you actually need to integrate the data sets into OSM? You seem fairly
talented at data wrangling and my suggestion would be build your web
services using OSM as a base map, and make the ancillary data available as
a separate overlay. This way you will not potentially breach the terms and
conditions of the OSM licence (but still please check with the data
providers that you can use that data in this way). There are multiple other
ways that you can display the data sets with out actually integrating into
OSM.

I look forward to seeing the completed product!

Cheers

Greg



On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:10 PM Daniel Pocock <daniel at pocock.pro> wrote:

>
>
> On 21/04/2020 02:25, Warin wrote:
> > On 20/4/20 9:10 am, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >> On 20/04/2020 00:49, Andrew Davidson wrote:
> >>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 7:52 AM Daniel Pocock <daniel at pocock.pro
> >>> <mailto:daniel at pocock.pro>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>     The CWGC copyright notice appears to be compatible with a bulk
> import of
> >>>     their cemetery data.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The copyright notice explicitly says you can only use it for personal
> use.
> >> "Personal use" is one of those things that can be vague.  They don't
> >> elaborate.
> >
> > 'They' don't need to elaborate.
> > Most, if not all, lawyers will tell you that it excludes 'business use'
> where it is used to generate money.
> > OSM requires that OSM data can be used to generate money.
> >
> > This, to me, clearly says that the data cannot be used in OSM.
>
> Agreed, but it is safe for people to explore the data at home as part of
> the Anzacathon
>
> >> All these sites include a lot of photos and other material.  They may
> >> only apply the strictest definition of their license to those things, it
> >> could be worth contacting them to find out if they are happy for
> >> OpenStreetMap collaboration on the location data.
> >
> > Go right ahead and contact them.
> >
> >> The Anzacathon itself is a personal and non-profit activity that I've
> >> contributed to as a volunteer and I've cited all the data sources so I'm
> >> quite comfortable with the licensing.
> >
> > You may be comfortable.
> >
> > Will OSM lawyers be?
> >
> > Will the authors and lawyers of those data sources be equally
> comfortable?
>
> I agree with your concerns for the specific case of import to OSM
>
> I notice that AWM is using OSM on their site but CWGC is using Google
> Maps on their site.  An initiative to contact the CWGC might look at
> something broader than this data set and look at the general question of
> helping them operate without Google, like AWM.
>
> The UK Government also has a strong commitment to Open Data and this
> would be a factor for CWGC
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_data_in_the_United_Kingdom
>
> Based on the above, what are the things that people can do
> constructively with the data as it stands?  Any suggestions would be
> really welcome.
>
> Hopefully I will have some more time to work on it myself this week, I
> was planning to make a simple function for people to search for war
> graves and monuments within a given radius.  That doesn't exist on any
> of the sites right now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
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