[talk-au] Shoulder and cycle usage

[Andrew Harvey]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 14:19, Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de> wrote:

> Hi, what is the view of tagging road shoulders and particularly when they
> have painted bicycle signs?
>
> Motorways would be another candidate.
>

I've seen a few different scenarios.

- a dedicate cycle lane (only used as a cyclelane, not an emergency
shoulder) cycleway=lane + shoulder=no eg
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.81151/151.18789
- a shoulder which doubles as a marked cycle lane (it's an emergency
shoulder, but with markings to indicate bicycle use) (shouder=yes,
cycleway=lane) eg
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.64938/150.84838
- a shoulder which can be used by bicycles but has no bicycle markings or
signage (shoulder=yes cycleway=no, bicycle=yes) eg
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.58996/150.60760
- have both a cycle lane and a shoulder, though segregated by paint
(cycleway=lane, shoulder=yes) - no way to distinguish this from case (2)
eg. https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.43134/151.29444

I admit though this can be subjective.

So my rule of thumb is if there is a painted marking for bicycles and it's
separated from other traffic from paint then use cycleway=lane, you can
also then consider if this is a road shoulder too and add shoulder=yes if
so.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 14:30, Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Shoulders should always be tagged appropriately.
>
> Shoulders legally in Australia can be used by all bicycles - whether or
> not they have a bicycle stencil (painted bicycle sign)  And a bicycle lane
> is legally indicated by a sign and not a stencil.  Legally the stencil has
> no meaning at all.
>

My view is we should be tagging based on the effective feature on the
ground, and not solely based on if it meets a specific legal
classification. So while legally it might need to meet certain crieteria to
be an official "cycle lane" so long as it's dedicated for use by bicycles
and separated from other traffic, it's effectively a cycleway=lane in OSM.


> My personal advice currently in Australia is to caution against indicating
> there is bicycle infrastructure where there is no amenity.   Since, this is
> a far greater problem in OSM than missing cycle routes and infrastructure,
> and takes far longer to correct and survey.  Google Maps has actually come
> from behind to lead OSM in this aspect now in Sydney in most areas.
>

Are there any places in particular you think we are lacking? I've been
working hard to add new recently built infrastructure and well as remove
cycle tags from OSM where there is nothing left on the ground anymore.


> That said, most motorways that have a wide shoulder, a cycle stencil, and
> permit cycling have a bicycle lane indicated.  I think this is probably
> appropriate.
>
> Ian.
>
> On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 14:19, Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi, what is the view of tagging road shoulders and particularly when they
>> have painted bicycle signs?
>>
>> Motorways would be another candidate.
>>
>> A wiki entry for shoulder exists but is very basic
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shoulder
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