[talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths

[Michael Collinson]

A bit late to the party on this one. But a couple of observations follow 
up Graeme's 2012-10-03 point about the myriad of "You can ride on a 
footpath if" exceptions and how to deal with them.

1) I suggest rigorously using and making synonymous footway=sidewalk [1] 
with what are clearly and unambivalently "road-related" areas in VIC [2] 
and NSW, i.e. generally urban footways that clearly (mostly) parallel a 
vehicular road with/without a nature strip and don't have any cycle 
signage. That throws the problem of exceptions on to router software, 
which I think is the right approach.

Perhaps emphasise this relationship in:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Urban_Footpaths_and_Cycleways

2) However, this does create an un-level router playing field favouring 
the big boys. Sarah Hoffman raised the general issue at SOTM in her talk:

2021: Boundaries, Places and the Future of Tagging
Sarah Hoffman (keeper of Nominatum)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAzljx1ewZ0&list=PLQNy8KsDknCoq3AkVd5Nlgtwp1fnAWOcn&index=16

While she is talking about geocoding and all its local variations, her 
general point is that there is a layer of cultural and regulatory 
metadata which is missing from OpenStreetMap. This allows larger 
corporations to provide this and potentially "take over" OpenStreetMap 
by simply being able to offer a much better use-experience than the rest 
of us can by refining their software to take into account local needs. I 
am currently tasked along with Andy Allan of look at take over risks to 
the OpenStreetMap Foundation and will be adding this.

What I personally think we need is a completely separate open data-set 
that sets out to capture all this information basically on the premise 
"If you are in this polygon, then these rules apply" for language, 
access, addressing, whatever. It currently remains an I'd like to do 
this if I had time project, but if anyone is interested in working with 
me on it, let me know.

Mike

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:footway%3Dsidewalk


[2] Matthew Seale 2021-10-03:
"

The full version of the Victorian Road rules can be found here (or via 
the link from the VicRoads website)

https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H 
<https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H>

As noted in an earlier comment on this forum the Vic road rules apply in 
roads and road related areas – see rules 11-13.  Footpaths and nature 
strips adjacent to roads are considered a road related areas and are 
  subject to the footpath cycling restrictions in those areas.

However there does not appear to be any provision in the Victorian Road 
Rules that I can find to extend Victorian road rules to all unmarked 
(I.e. the vast majority) off-road and unsealed paths in Victoria away 
from roads. "



On 2021-10-03 07:08, Thorsten Engler via Talk-au wrote:
>
> Ah, I now see there are subtle differences in the definition of “road 
> related area” in Victoria and NSW…
>
> While the NSW rules, as written, expand the definition of “road 
> related area” to any public space which has as it’s primary purpose 
> use by pedestrians, the Victoria rules do not seem to do that.
>
> Though the Victoria version of the road rules includes this:
>
> a place that is a road by virtue of a declaration under section 
> 3(2)(a) of the Road Safety Act 1986
>
> and if you follow that rabbit hole all the way down, you get to:
>
> (2) The Governor in Council may by Order published in the Government 
> Gazette-
>
>   (a) declare any place or class of places, whether open to vehicles 
> or not, to be or not to be a road or roads or a road related area or 
> road related areas for the purposes of this Act;
>
> Which means that to actually figure out what is a road or road related 
> area in Victoria, someone will have to do an exhaustive search of the 
> Government Gazette.
>
> *From:*Matthew Seale <mseale1 at iinet.net.au>
> *Sent:* Sunday, 3 October 2021 14:18
> *To:* Sebastian Azagra <s.azagra at me.com>; talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths
>
> The full version of the Victorian Road rules can be found here (or via 
> the link from the VicRoads website)
>
> https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H 
> <https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H>
>
> As noted in an earlier comment on this forum the Vic road rules apply 
> in roads and road related areas – see rules 11-13.  Footpaths and 
> nature strips adjacent to roads are considered a road related areas 
> and are  subject to the footpath cycling restrictions in those areas.
>
> However there does not appear to be any provision in the Victorian 
> Road Rules that I can find to extend Victorian road rules to all 
> unmarked (I.e. the vast majority) off-road and unsealed paths in 
> Victoria away from roads.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

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