[OSM-talk-be] First OpenGeoDB Import is done

[Denis Jacquerye]

On Jan 21, 2008 7:18 PM, Johan Huysmans <johan.huysmans at inuits.be> wrote:
> This is a discussion started on OSM-talk concerning the import of the
> opengeoDB.
>
> We will continue this discussion on the talk-be mailinglist, as it is
> Belgium specific.
>
> The issue about the double names is a bug and will be fixed by Sven, as
> I can understand from this mail. Thanks for that Sven :)
>
> In an other mail I will re-start the discussion about the place types.
>
> Let's keep Sven in CC because he is not subscribe to talk-be (Sven
> general discussion of Belgium are held in English, so you can always
> subscribe)
>
> Greetings Johan
>
> Sven Anders wrote:
> > Am Montag, 21. Januar 2008 13:49 schrieben Sie:
> >
> >> On Monday 21 January 2008, Johan Huysmans wrote:
> >>
> >>> I checked this out on
> >>> <http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=51.013361068022284&lon=4.29214993
> >>> 01165795&zoom=12&layers=B000F000F> but no extra placenames showed up,
> >>> even not after a rerender.
> >>> I investigated it with josm and it shows that the "place=" tag is
> >>> always FIXME.
> >>>
> >> Looking at it, I think it's because of missing population information.
> >> And since population is probably used to tag with city/town/village in
> >> the other countries that got OpenGeoDB data, it just gives it a FXIME
> >> place tag when it's missing. But just guessing of course...
> >>
> >
> > Thats right the version of OpenGeoDB does not say, what place it is.
> >
> >> Anyway, we were still in the process of making conventions for the place
> >> tags in Belgium, so maybe it's good it didn't give a value to it yet...
> >>
> >
> > correct this if you have made a desission.
> >
> >
> >>> I also noted that the "name=" tag has 2 values, seperated by a ,
> >>> (probably this is the dutch and french name) but in some places they
> >>> are both the same?
> >>> The double name is also true in ex. the is_in tag.
> >>>
> >
> > Okay, i think thats a bug of the import tool in combination with OpenGeoDB
> > data. In OpenGeoDB there is for example
> >
> > I had thought that there is only one entry with: is_native_lang, but in the
> > Database there are two.
> >
> > | loc_id | text_type | text_val  | text_locale | is_native_lang |
> > is_default_name
> > |  34140 | 500100000 | Odeigne   | de          |            1 |             1
> > |  34140 | 500100000 | Odeigne   | fr          |           1 |               1
> >
> >
> >
> >> It's not Dutch and French (and if that were the case there would have to
> >> be a German name as well), it's just the same tag twice every time.
> >> Even in Brussels where the municipalities are bilingual it has the
> >> French name twice (and since the already existing place tags there have
> >> both Dutch and French names in their name key, it made duplicate nodes
> >> to already existing ones).
> >>
> >
> > Bad Bug, when the name is not found. It will be newly created. Of cause a
> > name: Odeigne,Odeigne is not found on the map.

Some places have name="<French name> - <Dutch name>" (or the other
order depending on sign usage or language policies), name:fr="<French
name>", name:nl="<Dutch name>". If possible, it would be useful to
have name:lang_tag filled with the import. If names are the same they
can be collapsed to one in name's value.

> >
> >> To keep with linguistic problems: all is_in keys in Flanders
> >> have "is_in=...,Belgique,...". If you do want to stick with the
> >> localized names it should be "is_in=...,België,...",
> >> and "is_in=...,Belgien,..." in the German community. Better would
> >> probably be to just stick with the English is_in=Belgium, since you
> >> don't need to do special rules for your import script, and we mostly
> >> use is_in=Belgium anyway already.
> >>
> >
> > Yes is related to this

Using "is_in=Belgium", with names in English seems the most practical
in this case. Is this a common practice in other multilingual
countries?

> >
> >> Next issue: the municipalities in Brussels region have "is_in=Bruxelles"
> >> tags, which is actually quite wrong: "is_in=Brussels-Capital Region" is
> >> better, since "Brussels" is just another municipality. Anyway, is_in
> >> tags in Brussels may be confusing anyway to foreigners, so better
> >> discuss it first :-)

To be correct "Brussels" is not the municipality either, the
Municipality is "stad Brussel" or "ville de Bruxelles" (City of
Brussels  in English), commonly called Brussel-stad and
Bruxelles-ville (Brussels-City in English).
Using "is_in=Brussels" could mean either in the Capital-Region or in
the City (municipality) depending on a person's interpretation.

Have a good day,
Denis Moyogo Jacquerye