[OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas

Fri Apr 22 19:59:59 UTC 2011

Hello everybody, Hello Pol,

i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen (before Pol 
deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the (openstreetmap) Grand-Place 
de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as background. The point is café Le Central, 
at the corner of Grand Place with rue de Nimy.  I suppose the Antenna is on the 
roof, but it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a difference of 
about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.

What is wrong (or imprecise)  : antenna coordinates or Bing position ? 

In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked against 
a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, 
with a survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543 
(Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.

My naive first conclusion is that  the accuracy of the antenna positions could 
be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or cities). This could result to 
absurd situations like antenna on streets.

Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance of antenna 
(from the data files) with nearest streets ?  or another standard procedure ?

Regards,

Linusable

Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit : 
I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not clear. 
>
>-φol d.-
>
>
>
>
>On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken <Ghia at ghia.eu> wrote:
>
>I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that tower:type = communications 
>is not rendered anymore???
>>I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr VRT radio and tv 
>>towers in Overijse - Wavre.
>>
>>I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add much, but instead 
>>duplicating and cluthering the rendering and names of the current places 
>>(buildings like churches etc)
>>http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
>>Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk,  etc
>>
>>There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project
>>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites
>>
>>
>>Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about their use becomes 
>>clear??
>>For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Gerard.
>>
>>Pol wrote:
>>
>>Hello, 
>>>
>>>
>>>I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write down a mail explaining 
>>>the request, why, etc etc etc.
>>>That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in french), just contact me 
>>>in private.
>>>
>>>
>>>They told me that they will forward the mail to their law departement and I 
>>>should expect an answer next week.
>>>
>>>
>>>Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the situation !
>>>
>>>
>>>By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday, April 28, 
>>>2011: http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/
>>>
>>>
>>>Have a nice day all.
>>>
>>>-φol d.- 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol <d.paolino at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hello, 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Someone forwarded me the mail from Lennard talking about the revert or not of my 
>>>>commit.
>>>>I wasn't aware of the existence of that mailing list until now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Let me explain to all of you how it all began...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>One year ago I was looking, for personal purpose, the coordinates of each cell 
>>>>phones antennas in Belgium.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The first site I found was: http://www.antennes-gsm.be/
>>>>But that one seems to be old and no more maintained.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Then I found the one of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The one you are currently seeing at this address is the new version.
>>>>When I first found it, they were using an old version.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>By doing some searches, I found a huge security hole in it.
>>>>I was unemployed at that time and I decided to make an exploit.
>>>>The exploit was simple, using HTML and JavaScript, I could manipulate their 
>>>>databases by sending custom queries.
>>>>I'm not a kid and I'm someone who destroy someone else's work, so I contacted 
>>>>them and explained the problem.
>>>>The reaction was fast, some days later I was in their offices with my laptop, 
>>>>showing them the problem and the possible solutions.
>>>>I also made a new local proof of concept that it could be done in a nicer and 
>>>>cleaner way.
>>>>Unfortunately, they were really kind and say thanks but we do not rely on our 
>>>>team to do the map, we rely on another company and we cannot break the current 
>>>>contract with them.
>>>>Before leaving, I asked to the head of security if it was possible to get a dump 
>>>>of the antennas coordinates in a more easy way to put it on OpenStreetMap and he 
>>>>said that it couldn't be done: "Imaginez ce que pourrait faire qqun de mal 
>>>>intentionné s'il trouve ces données!" which means: "Imagine what could do 
>>>>someone malicious if they finds these datas!".
>>>>Which is completely a non sense because those datas can be retrieved from THEIR 
>>>>online website.
>>>>I said him that ! Someone could spot by himself all the antennas and put them on 
>>>>OpenStreetMap. He didn't reply to that one.
>>>>So, I leaved, quite sad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Some month later, the current new system was in place and the security hole 
>>>>vanished, problem solved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>With the new system, it's even easier to get their datas.
>>>>I decided to save in a file all the data I could get from their map in a file 
>>>>and submit it to OpenStreetMap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's the end of the story.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's up to you now to decide if you want to remove them or not.
>>>>If you have questions, I'll reply to them on that mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nice evening all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-φol d.- 
>>>
>>>
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