[OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas

Sat Apr 23 13:47:11 UTC 2011

It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but the
source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert coordinates
and got about the same deviations.

Regards,

Ben

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able <linusablelinus at yahoo.fr> wrote:

> Hello everybody, Hello Pol,
>
> i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen (before Pol
> deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the (openstreetmap)
> Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as background. The point is
> café Le Central, at the corner of Grand Place with rue de Nimy.  I suppose
> the Antenna is on the roof, but it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place,
> with a difference of about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.
>
> What is wrong (or imprecise)  : antenna coordinates or Bing position ?
>
> In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked against a geodetic
> point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a
> survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543 (Obourg).
> It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.
>
> My naive first conclusion is that  the accuracy of the antenna positions
> could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or cities). This could
> result to absurd situations like antenna on streets.
>
> Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance of
> antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ?  or another standard
> procedure ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Linusable
>
> Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
>
> I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not clear.
>
> -*φol d.*-
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken <Ghia at ghia.eu> wrote:
>
>>  I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that tower:type =
>> communications is not rendered anymore???
>> I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr VRT radio and
>> tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.
>>
>> I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add much, but
>> instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering and names of the current
>> places (buildings like churches etc)
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
>> Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk,  etc
>>
>> There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites
>>
>> Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about their use
>> becomes clear??
>> For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Gerard.
>>
>> Pol wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>  I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write down a mail
>> explaining the request, why, etc etc etc.
>> That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in french), just
>> contact me in private.
>>
>>  They told me that they will forward the mail to their law departement
>> and I should expect an answer next week.
>>
>>  Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the situation !
>>
>>  By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday, April 28, 2011:
>> http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/
>>
>>  Have a nice day all.
>>
>> -*φol d.*-
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol <d.paolino at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>  Someone forwarded me the mail from Lennard talking about the revert or
>>> not of my commit.
>>> I wasn't aware of the existence of that mailing list until now.
>>>
>>>  Let me explain to all of you how it all began...
>>>
>>>  One year ago I was looking, for personal purpose, the coordinates of
>>> each cell phones antennas in Belgium.
>>>
>>>  The first site I found was: http://www.antennes-gsm.be/
>>> But that one seems to be old and no more maintained.
>>>
>>>  Then I found the one of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/
>>>
>>>  The one you are currently seeing at this address is the new version.
>>> When I first found it, they were using an old version.
>>>
>>>  By doing some searches, I found a huge security hole in it.
>>> I was unemployed at that time and I decided to make an exploit.
>>> The exploit was simple, using HTML and JavaScript, I could manipulate
>>> their databases by sending custom queries.
>>> I'm not a kid and I'm someone who destroy someone else's work, so I
>>> contacted them and explained the problem.
>>> The reaction was fast, some days later I was in their offices with my
>>> laptop, showing them the problem and the possible solutions.
>>> I also made a new local proof of concept that it could be done in a nicer
>>> and cleaner way.
>>> Unfortunately, they were really kind and say thanks but we do not rely on
>>> our team to do the map, we rely on another company and we cannot break the
>>> current contract with them.
>>> Before leaving, I asked to the head of security if it was possible to get
>>> a dump of the antennas coordinates in a more easy way to put it on
>>> OpenStreetMap and he said that it couldn't be done: "Imaginez ce que
>>> pourrait faire qqun de mal intentionné s'il trouve ces données!" which
>>> means: "Imagine what could do someone malicious if they finds these datas!".
>>> Which is completely a non sense because those datas can be retrieved from
>>> THEIR online website.
>>> I said him that ! Someone could spot by himself all the antennas and put
>>> them on OpenStreetMap. He didn't reply to that one.
>>> So, I leaved, quite sad.
>>>
>>>  Some month later, the current new system was in place and the security
>>> hole vanished, problem solved.
>>>
>>>  With the new system, it's even easier to get their datas.
>>> I decided to save in a file all the data I could get from their map in a
>>> file and submit it to OpenStreetMap.
>>>
>>>  That's the end of the story.
>>>
>>>  It's up to you now to decide if you want to remove them or not.
>>> If you have questions, I'll reply to them on that mailing list.
>>>
>>>  Nice evening all.
>>>
>>>  -*φol d.*-
>>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
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