[OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas

Linusable linusablelinus at yahoo.fr
Sat Apr 23 15:17:58 UTC 2011


I have tried a few times this converter website :
the world coordinate converter <http://twcc.free.fr/>
 From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i 
tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original data 
for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le Central', 
grand place of Mons,

I have seen on the website of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/ that the 
position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for the above mentionned point 
was also a few meters on the grand place, with the google images

Regards,
Linusable

Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :
> It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but the 
> source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert 
> coordinates and got about the same deviations.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able <linusablelinus at yahoo.fr 
> <mailto:linusablelinus at yahoo.fr>> wrote:
>
>     Hello everybody, Hello Pol,
>
>     i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen
>     (before Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the
>     (openstreetmap) Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as
>     background. The point is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand
>     Place with rue de Nimy.  I suppose the Antenna is on the roof, but
>     it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a difference of
>     about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.
>
>     What is wrong (or imprecise)  : antenna coordinates or Bing
>     position ?
>
>     In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked
>     against a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be
>     <http://www.ngi.be>), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a
>     survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543
>     (Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.
>     My naive first conclusion is that  the accuracy of the antenna
>     positions could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or
>     cities). This could result to absurd situations like antenna on
>     streets.
>
>     Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance
>     of antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ?  or
>     another standard procedure ?
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Linusable
>
>     Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
>>     I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not
>>     clear.
>>
>>     -*φol d.*-
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken <Ghia at ghia.eu
>>     <mailto:Ghia at ghia.eu>> wrote:
>>
>>         I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that
>>         tower:type = communications is not rendered anymore???
>>         I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr
>>         VRT radio and tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.
>>
>>         I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add
>>         much, but instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering
>>         and names of the current places (buildings like churches etc)
>>         http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
>>         Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk,  etc
>>
>>         There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project
>>         http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites
>>
>>         Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about
>>         their use becomes clear??
>>         For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.
>>
>>         Regards,
>>         Gerard.
>>
>>         Pol wrote:
>>>         Hello,
>>>
>>>         I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write
>>>         down a mail explaining the request, why, etc etc etc.
>>>         That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in
>>>         french), just contact me in private.
>>>
>>>         They told me that they will forward the mail to their law
>>>         departement and I should expect an answer next week.
>>>
>>>         Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the
>>>         situation !
>>>
>>>         By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday,
>>>         April 28, 2011:
>>>         http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/
>>>
>>>         Have a nice day all.
>>>
>>>         -*φol d.*-
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol <d.paolino at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:d.paolino at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Hello,
>>>
>>>             Someone forwarded me the mail from Lennard talking about
>>>             the revert or not of my commit.
>>>             I wasn't aware of the existence of that mailing list
>>>             until now.
>>>
>>>             Let me explain to all of you how it all began...
>>>
>>>             One year ago I was looking, for personal purpose, the
>>>             coordinates of each cell phones antennas in Belgium.
>>>
>>>             The first site I found was: http://www.antennes-gsm.be/
>>>             But that one seems to be old and no more maintained.
>>>
>>>             Then I found the one of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/
>>>
>>>             The one you are currently seeing at this address is the
>>>             new version.
>>>             When I first found it, they were using an old version.
>>>
>>>             By doing some searches, I found a huge security hole in it.
>>>             I was unemployed at that time and I decided to make an
>>>             exploit.
>>>             The exploit was simple, using HTML and JavaScript, I
>>>             could manipulate their databases by sending custom queries.
>>>             I'm not a kid and I'm someone who destroy someone else's
>>>             work, so I contacted them and explained the problem.
>>>             The reaction was fast, some days later I was in their
>>>             offices with my laptop, showing them the problem and the
>>>             possible solutions.
>>>             I also made a new local proof of concept that it could
>>>             be done in a nicer and cleaner way.
>>>             Unfortunately, they were really kind and say thanks but
>>>             we do not rely on our team to do the map, we rely on
>>>             another company and we cannot break the current contract
>>>             with them.
>>>             Before leaving, I asked to the head of security if it
>>>             was possible to get a dump of the antennas coordinates
>>>             in a more easy way to put it on OpenStreetMap and he
>>>             said that it couldn't be done: "Imaginez ce que pourrait
>>>             faire qqun de mal intentionné s'il trouve ces données!"
>>>             which means: "Imagine what could do someone malicious if
>>>             they finds these datas!".
>>>             Which is completely a non sense because those datas can
>>>             be retrieved from THEIR online website.
>>>             I said him that ! Someone could spot by himself all the
>>>             antennas and put them on OpenStreetMap. He didn't reply
>>>             to that one.
>>>             So, I leaved, quite sad.
>>>
>>>             Some month later, the current new system was in place
>>>             and the security hole vanished, problem solved.
>>>
>>>             With the new system, it's even easier to get their datas.
>>>             I decided to save in a file all the data I could get
>>>             from their map in a file and submit it to OpenStreetMap.
>>>
>>>             That's the end of the story.
>>>
>>>             It's up to you now to decide if you want to remove them
>>>             or not.
>>>             If you have questions, I'll reply to them on that
>>>             mailing list.
>>>
>>>             Nice evening all.
>>>
>>>             -*φol d.*-
>>>
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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