[OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas
Linusable
linusablelinus at yahoo.fr
Sat Apr 23 15:17:58 UTC 2011
I have tried a few times this converter website :
the world coordinate converter <http://twcc.free.fr/>
From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i
tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original data
for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le Central',
grand place of Mons,
I have seen on the website of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/ that the
position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for the above mentionned point
was also a few meters on the grand place, with the google images
Regards,
Linusable
Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :
> It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but the
> source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert
> coordinates and got about the same deviations.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able <linusablelinus at yahoo.fr
> <mailto:linusablelinus at yahoo.fr>> wrote:
>
> Hello everybody, Hello Pol,
>
> i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen
> (before Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the
> (openstreetmap) Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as
> background. The point is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand
> Place with rue de Nimy. I suppose the Antenna is on the roof, but
> it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a difference of
> about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.
>
> What is wrong (or imprecise) : antenna coordinates or Bing
> position ?
>
> In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked
> against a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be
> <http://www.ngi.be>), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a
> survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543
> (Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.
> My naive first conclusion is that the accuracy of the antenna
> positions could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or
> cities). This could result to absurd situations like antenna on
> streets.
>
> Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance
> of antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ? or
> another standard procedure ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Linusable
>
> Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
>> I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not
>> clear.
>>
>> -*φol d.*-
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken <Ghia at ghia.eu
>> <mailto:Ghia at ghia.eu>> wrote:
>>
>> I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that
>> tower:type = communications is not rendered anymore???
>> I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr
>> VRT radio and tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.
>>
>> I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add
>> much, but instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering
>> and names of the current places (buildings like churches etc)
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
>> Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk, etc
>>
>> There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites
>>
>> Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about
>> their use becomes clear??
>> For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Gerard.
>>
>> Pol wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write
>>> down a mail explaining the request, why, etc etc etc.
>>> That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in
>>> french), just contact me in private.
>>>
>>> They told me that they will forward the mail to their law
>>> departement and I should expect an answer next week.
>>>
>>> Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the
>>> situation !
>>>
>>> By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday,
>>> April 28, 2011:
>>> http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/
>>>
>>> Have a nice day all.
>>>
>>> -*φol d.*-
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol <d.paolino at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:d.paolino at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Someone forwarded me the mail from Lennard talking about
>>> the revert or not of my commit.
>>> I wasn't aware of the existence of that mailing list
>>> until now.
>>>
>>> Let me explain to all of you how it all began...
>>>
>>> One year ago I was looking, for personal purpose, the
>>> coordinates of each cell phones antennas in Belgium.
>>>
>>> The first site I found was: http://www.antennes-gsm.be/
>>> But that one seems to be old and no more maintained.
>>>
>>> Then I found the one of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/
>>>
>>> The one you are currently seeing at this address is the
>>> new version.
>>> When I first found it, they were using an old version.
>>>
>>> By doing some searches, I found a huge security hole in it.
>>> I was unemployed at that time and I decided to make an
>>> exploit.
>>> The exploit was simple, using HTML and JavaScript, I
>>> could manipulate their databases by sending custom queries.
>>> I'm not a kid and I'm someone who destroy someone else's
>>> work, so I contacted them and explained the problem.
>>> The reaction was fast, some days later I was in their
>>> offices with my laptop, showing them the problem and the
>>> possible solutions.
>>> I also made a new local proof of concept that it could
>>> be done in a nicer and cleaner way.
>>> Unfortunately, they were really kind and say thanks but
>>> we do not rely on our team to do the map, we rely on
>>> another company and we cannot break the current contract
>>> with them.
>>> Before leaving, I asked to the head of security if it
>>> was possible to get a dump of the antennas coordinates
>>> in a more easy way to put it on OpenStreetMap and he
>>> said that it couldn't be done: "Imaginez ce que pourrait
>>> faire qqun de mal intentionné s'il trouve ces données!"
>>> which means: "Imagine what could do someone malicious if
>>> they finds these datas!".
>>> Which is completely a non sense because those datas can
>>> be retrieved from THEIR online website.
>>> I said him that ! Someone could spot by himself all the
>>> antennas and put them on OpenStreetMap. He didn't reply
>>> to that one.
>>> So, I leaved, quite sad.
>>>
>>> Some month later, the current new system was in place
>>> and the security hole vanished, problem solved.
>>>
>>> With the new system, it's even easier to get their datas.
>>> I decided to save in a file all the data I could get
>>> from their map in a file and submit it to OpenStreetMap.
>>>
>>> That's the end of the story.
>>>
>>> It's up to you now to decide if you want to remove them
>>> or not.
>>> If you have questions, I'll reply to them on that
>>> mailing list.
>>>
>>> Nice evening all.
>>>
>>> -*φol d.*-
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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