[OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas
Gerard Vanderveken
Ghia at ghia.eu
Sun Apr 24 10:27:18 UTC 2011
There are two things wrong:
- The antenna at the site of BIPT is placed not on the roof of the
building but above the white tent / parasol of the terrace (See their
Google map with satelite view).
(Are the antennas in front of the building against the wall?)
- The street before the cafe in OSM is running through this terrace
(see Bing sattelite view).
(The way is not actualy a street but the border of the market place)
the actual street should be located more south-west.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/91685551
Why do you convert the location in degrees, minutes and seconds as the
BIPT site has already 2 formats?
Coordonnées: 3.95292 E / 50.45506 N
Lambert: X: 120473 / Y: 127218 m
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.45506&mlon=3.95292&zoom=18
Seems the same location as on BIPT.
Regards,
Gerard.
Linusable wrote:
> I have tried a few times this converter website :
> the world coordinate converter <http://twcc.free.fr/>
> From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i
> tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original data
> for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le Central',
> grand place of Mons,
>
> I have seen on the website of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/ that the
> position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for the above mentionned
> point was also a few meters on the grand place, with the google images
>
> Regards,
> Linusable
>
> Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :
>
>> It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but
>> the source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert
>> coordinates and got about the same deviations.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able <linusablelinus at yahoo.fr
>> <mailto:linusablelinus at yahoo.fr>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everybody, Hello Pol,
>>
>> i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen
>> (before Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the
>> (openstreetmap) Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as
>> background. The point is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand
>> Place with rue de Nimy. I suppose the Antenna is on the roof,
>> but it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a
>> difference of about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.
>>
>> What is wrong (or imprecise) : antenna coordinates or Bing
>> position ?
>>
>> In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked
>> against a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be
>> <http://www.ngi.be>), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a
>> survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543
>> (Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.
>>
>> My naive first conclusion is that the accuracy of the antenna
>> positions could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or
>> cities). This could result to absurd situations like antenna on
>> streets.
>>
>> Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance
>> of antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ? or
>> another standard procedure ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Linusable
>>
>> Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
>>
>>> I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not
>>> clear.
>>>
>>> -φol d.-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken <Ghia at ghia.eu
>>> <mailto:Ghia at ghia.eu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that
>>> tower:type = communications is not rendered anymore???
>>> I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr
>>> VRT radio and tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.
>>>
>>> I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add
>>> much, but instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering
>>> and names of the current places (buildings like churches etc)
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
>>> Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk, etc
>>>
>>> There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites
>>>
>>> Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about
>>> their use becomes clear??
>>> For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Gerard.
>>>
>>> Pol wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write
>>>> down a mail explaining the request, why, etc etc etc.
>>>> That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in
>>>> french), just contact me in private.
>>>>
>>>> They told me that they will forward the mail to their law
>>>> departement and I should expect an answer next week.
>>>>
>>>> Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the
>>>> situation !
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday,
>>>> April 28,
>>>> 2011: http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/
>>>>
>>>> Have a nice day all.
>>>>
>>>> -φol d.-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol <d.paolino at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:d.paolino at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Someone forwarded me the mail from Lennard talking
>>>> about the revert or not of my commit.
>>>> I wasn't aware of the existence of that mailing list
>>>> until now.
>>>>
>>>> Let me explain to all of you how it all began...
>>>>
>>>> One year ago I was looking, for personal purpose, the
>>>> coordinates of each cell phones antennas in Belgium.
>>>>
>>>> The first site I found was: http://www.antennes-gsm.be/
>>>> But that one seems to be old and no more maintained.
>>>>
>>>> Then I found the one of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/
>>>>
>>>> The one you are currently seeing at this address is the
>>>> new version.
>>>> When I first found it, they were using an old version.
>>>>
>>>> By doing some searches, I found a huge security hole in it.
>>>> I was unemployed at that time and I decided to make an
>>>> exploit.
>>>> The exploit was simple, using HTML and JavaScript, I
>>>> could manipulate their databases by sending custom queries.
>>>> I'm not a kid and I'm someone who destroy someone
>>>> else's work, so I contacted them and explained the problem.
>>>> The reaction was fast, some days later I was in their
>>>> offices with my laptop, showing them the problem and
>>>> the possible solutions.
>>>> I also made a new local proof of concept that it could
>>>> be done in a nicer and cleaner way.
>>>> Unfortunately, they were really kind and say thanks but
>>>> we do not rely on our team to do the map, we rely on
>>>> another company and we cannot break the current
>>>> contract with them.
>>>> Before leaving, I asked to the head of security if it
>>>> was possible to get a dump of the antennas coordinates
>>>> in a more easy way to put it on OpenStreetMap and he
>>>> said that it couldn't be done: "Imaginez ce que
>>>> pourrait faire qqun de mal intentionné s'il trouve ces
>>>> données!" which means: "Imagine what could do someone
>>>> malicious if they finds these datas!".
>>>> Which is completely a non sense because those datas can
>>>> be retrieved from THEIR online website.
>>>> I said him that ! Someone could spot by himself all the
>>>> antennas and put them on OpenStreetMap. He didn't reply
>>>> to that one.
>>>> So, I leaved, quite sad.
>>>>
>>>> Some month later, the current new system was in place
>>>> and the security hole vanished, problem solved.
>>>>
>>>> With the new system, it's even easier to get their datas.
>>>> I decided to save in a file all the data I could get
>>>> from their map in a file and submit it to OpenStreetMap.
>>>>
>>>> That's the end of the story.
>>>>
>>>> It's up to you now to decide if you want to remove them
>>>> or not.
>>>> If you have questions, I'll reply to them on that
>>>> mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> Nice evening all.
>>>>
>>>> -φol d.-
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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