[OSM-talk-be] city names - bug in OFM?
André Pirard
A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com
Mon Feb 23 20:40:37 UTC 2015
On 2015-02-23 19:59, Alain Bourgeois wrote :
>
> What is Osmand ?
>
What is spoken of as a problem in the message you sent and I replied to.
>
> In Basecamp or using garmin gps (e-trex), Maillen can NOT be found,
> even without street.
>
> You will find Assesse and you have to know that Maillen belongs to
> Assesse.
>
What is Basecamp? ;-)
>
> “Strépy-Braquegnies is not a boundary but a Residential Area (a
> landuse). You can't use one in an OSM search. »
>
>
>
> Strépy-Braquegnies is a city that has its own postal code (7110) and
> is totally different from La Louvière having another postal code (7100)
>
I was speaking of what's on the OSM map, of course, and why it does what
it does.
The name is not Strépy-Braquegnies but Strépy-Bracquegnies. It is not a
city (like Liège and Namur) but a town or a village. Nominatim would
call it a village, like Brussels.
Anyway, we're not speaking of built up areas but of territories.
Strépy-Bracquegnies is a part-municipality (ancienne commune) that is
*part of* the municipality (commune) La Louvière together with
Besonrieux, Boussoit, Haine-Saint-Paul, Haine-Saint-Pierre,
Houdeng-Aimeries, Houdeng-Gœgnies, La Louvière, Maurage, Saint-Vaast and
Trivières.
If you sent me a map (GPX or OSM or digital image) of the boundaries of
these part-municipalities, I will map them to OSM and OSM based programs
will start working the way you figure.
Regarding Basecamp, please tell your problem to its authors. I'm
interested to know when and how it'll be solved.
>
> What if there is another street with the same name exists in 7100 La
> Louvière? Nothing prevents it.
>
Only if it's the same street, else a GPS doesn't know which one it must
go to.
Many streets were renamed in 1977 to keep a single name per municipality.
>
> If you are walking or cycling, there is 8 Km between
> Strépy-Braquegnies and La Louvière. That’s a lot. If your map can’t
> figure out this, paper maps might be better!
>
And if it's a city and you walk 8 km, you stay in the city ;-)
André.
> Bien à vous,
>
> Alain Bourgeois
>
> +32 496 51 85 75
>
> http://www.kineuro.com <http://www.kineuro.com/>
>
>
>
> *From:*André Pirard [mailto:A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* lundi 23 février 2015 01:48
> *To:* OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] city names - bug in OFM?
>
>
>
> On 2015-02-22 23:13, Alain Bourgeois wrote :
>
> Maillen and Assesse are not the only bug.
>
> With Osmand, I find Maillen e.g. Place du Bâti and OSM finds "Place du
> Bâti Maillen" but that's *near* Maillen which is a village, that
> result is in Assesse which is a city. OSM also finds "Place du Bâti
> Assesse", of course.
> Osmand also finds Assesse if you tap "villages" (OSM calls it a city,
> not even a town, ahem).
>
> Kortessem and Wellen are in Osmand all-right, but, again, you have to
> tap on "villages" when the list gets short.
>
> We found other ones (event bigger).
>
>
>
> e.g. try to find Rue Jean-Baptiste Monoyer in 7110
> Strépy-Braquegnies. You will not find it.
>
>
>
> To locate it you have to search on … Rue *JB* Monoyer, in *7100*
> *La Louvière*.
>
> In order to find "Rue Jean-Baptiste Monoyer" it should be called "Rue
> Jean-Baptiste Monoyer" and not "Rue JB Monoyer".
> I have corrected that bug.
>
> Strépy-Braquegnies is not a boundary but a Residential Area (a
> landuse). You can't use one in an OSM search.
> You could if it were a (non-administrative) boundary, and even not,
> found in a subarea and Nominatim supported that, but that's another
> discussion.
>
> There is no need to include "Jean-Baptiste" in the query.
> Your street is located (nested) in Pont Balasse, La Louvière,
> Soignies, Hainaut, Wallonia, 7100;7110, Belgium
> So, any of these queries returns your answer: "Monoyer Pont Balasse",
> "Monoyer La Louvière", "Monoyer Soignies", "Monoyer Hainaut", "Monoyer
> Wallonia", "Monoyer Belgium" or "Monoyer".
>
> I'm not sure what the post code is or can be used for unless you are a
> letter.
>
> Except for JB, I don't find a bug, less "other ones", less "event bigger".
>
> André.
>
>
>
> I thought it was due to postal code, but sometimes streets are
> associated to wrong postal code!
>
>
>
> Bien à vous,
>
> Alain Bourgeois
>
> +32 496 51 85 75
>
> http://www.kineuro.com <http://www.kineuro.com/>
>
>
>
> *From:*Erik Beerten [mailto:ebe050 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* jeudi 25 décembre 2014 19:25
> *To:* OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] city names - bug in OFM?
>
>
>
> The problem with the missing municipalities also exists in OSMAND
> where some as Kortessem and Wellen are not listed although they
> are in OSM.
>
> A solution for tagging boundaries can be checking for natural
> boundaries = rivers, in different sources first. In Flanders
> those rivers as natural boundaries are mostly good visible on the
> AGIV air imagery.
> But what about a similar usable tool for Wallonie. I didn't hear
> more about how to use a similar source as AGIV for Wallonie in
> JOSM (?).
>
> Regards,
>
> Erik
>
>
> Op 23-12-14 om 18:14 schreef Marc Gemis:
>
> As you could see from the link in my previous post, Mallien is
> mapped as a node.
>
>
>
> Ligfietser wrote:
>
>
> "The OFM map looks at the administrative boundaries on OSM to
> assign the streets to a place:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki … ries#Namur
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Boundaries#Namur>
> First it looks in level 8 (municipality of Assese) and if
> available, it looks deeper at a section (sub municipality)
> admin_level=9. I dont know if this is the case in Maillen.
> If there exists such a section of level 9, it must be entered
> in OSM. If there is no section, streets could be tagged
> with is_in <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:is_in>
> If those sections are not specified, the map cannot find a
> street in Maillen so you must either enter Assesse or try
> another OSM map (no guarantee it work either) or a commercial
> map."
>
>
>
> So in order to make OFM work, we need the boundaries for
> Mallien as a relation. We do not have them in OSM at this moment.
>
> Those borders are hard to get. I don't know the situation for
> this in Wallonia. In Flanders we have a lot of admin-level 9
> boundaries (deelgemeenten), but even there the list is not
> complete. Maybe Julien Fastré or André know more about this.
>
> In general, we have to base ourselves on out-of-date maps for
> the borders. We are not allowed to copy them from Google or
> other institutions that ask a lot of money for that data.
> Sometimes governments open up a datasource with those
> boundaries. This is not the case in Belgium.
>
>
>
> Furthermore most recent databases from the government do not
> care about those "deelgemeenten", which makes it even harder
> to get access to a source to use.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> m
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Alain Bourgeois
> <alain.bourgeois at skynet.be <mailto:alain.bourgeois at skynet.be>>
> wrote:
>
> I tried the Benelux map downloaded 6 months ago – same
> problem.
>
> I reported the trouble on the forum
> (http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=473300#p473300)
> and they sent me to Belgian team.
>
>
>
> Bien à vous,
>
> Alain Bourgeois
>
> +32 496 51 85 75 <tel:%2B32%20496%2051%2085%2075>
>
> http://www.kineuro.com <http://www.kineuro.com/>
>
>
>
> *From:*Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.gemis at gmail.com
> <mailto:marc.gemis at gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* mardi 23 décembre 2014 17:37
> *To:* OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] city names - bug in OFM?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Alain Bourgeois
> <alain.bourgeois at skynet.be
> <mailto:alain.bourgeois at skynet.be>> wrote:
>
> Maillen
>
>
> The good news is that the village is in the OSM-data [1].
>
> The bad news is that we now have to find out why it does
> not appear in the map you have downloaded.
>
> Did you try the the Benelux Full version [2] ? I assume it
> is more detailed.
>
> Otherwise you can always contact the maker of the map via
> info at openfietsmap.nl <mailto:info at openfietsmap.nl>He can
> explain which information from OSM is available in the
> different versions of his map.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> m
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/31566150#map=13/50.3777/4.9701&layers=N
>
> [2] http://www.openfietsmap.nl/downloads/bnl_full
>
>
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