[OSM-talk-be] Tagging a restaurant that offers electricity to customers

Wed Sep 29 12:16:58 UTC 2021

Hi Joost,

 > I'd say it is useful to add service:bicycle:charging directly to 
objects, as it makes it easy to find "bicycle friendly objects". Having 
this as "yes" doesn't mean you can't add the actual charging location as 
a separate node as well (similar to how a camper site can have 
simultaneously both the attribute for a dump station as well as a node).

I kindoff disagree with this 'double tagging', as it is not maintainable 
in the long run. To stick with campersites, should we also tag that 
there is a playground, a shop, a toilet, ... on the campersite outline? 
What if there is a public playground just around the corner? IMHO it is 
up to the data consumer to check which points are nearby and to figure 
out what a 'bicycle friendly object' is.

 > I wonder if the availability of a power plug indoor is enough to 
conclude you can charge your bike battery there. If I were to ask, I'd 
ask "is it OK to charge my phone" or "is it OK to charge my bike 
battery" - and I wouldn't assume the answer to the second question to be 
yes just because the first is yes.

Good point, didn't think of that. Some cafés/pubs/...  have electrical 
plugs exposed in their dining areas which you can just use, I was in the 
first place thinking about mapping these as they are objectively visible.

 > A related thought is that if there's an outdoor plug, you could also 
use it to slowly slowly charge your electric car. This only makes sense 
at hotels/B&Bs I guess, because I don't think you'd get meaningful 
charge during a coffee break.

Which is why this outdoor plug should be mapped as a separate point, 
with the full support of adding socket types, power outputs and 
accessibility for various vehicles.

 > Do we really care if people can charge their phone though?

I do, and the persons who paid me to develop the theme care even more ;)
I've even seen cafés which have a stand of battery packs to charge your 
phone - but that is a paid service though.

 > Do we really want to map the answer to a question that could be 
answered by a random employee? The next one might answer differently. I 
wonder if we might be better off saying : hey, if you want to explicitly 
offer power plugs to customers, put a sticker on the door or on the 
plug, and then we can map that.

Valid point - such a sticker would indeed objectify it.

 > Are there any cafes that actually actively offer power plugs indoor? 
If not, I'd just leave it be. The only question I'd ask then is "Does 
this place offer a dedicated place to charge bicycles?" and add 
service:bicycle:charging=yes to the object if that's the case.

Yes, there are - for example coffee shops in trainstations typically 
offer those for commuters who want to work a bit on their laptop while 
waiting for their train. These outlets are sometimes even integrated in 
the furniture and tables; in some cases even offering an USB-outlet too.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Pieter Vander Vennet

On 29.09.21 09:58, joost schouppe wrote:
> Hi Pieter,
>
> I'd say it is useful to add service:bicycle:charging directly to 
> objects, as it makes it easy to find "bicycle friendly objects". 
> Having this as "yes" doesn't mean you can't add the actual charging 
> location as a separate node as well (similar to how a camper site can 
> have simultaneously both the attribute for a dump station as well as a 
> node).
>
> I wonder if the availability of a power plug indoor is enough to 
> conclude you can charge your bike battery there. If I were to ask, I'd 
> ask "is it OK to charge my phone" or "is it OK to charge my bike 
> battery" - and I wouldn't assume the answer to the second question to 
> be yes just because the first is yes.
>
> A related thought is that if there's an outdoor plug, you could also 
> use it to slowly slowly charge your electric car. This only makes 
> sense at hotels/B&Bs I guess, because I don't think you'd get 
> meaningful charge during a coffee break.
>
> Do we really care if people can charge their phone though? Do we 
> really want to map the answer to a question that could be answered by 
> a random employee? The next one might answer differently. I wonder if 
> we might be better off saying : hey, if you want to explicitly offer 
> power plugs to customers, put a sticker on the door or on the plug, 
> and then we can map that.
>
> Are there any cafes that actually actively offer power plugs indoor? 
> If not, I'd just leave it be. The only question I'd ask then is "Does 
> this place offer a dedicated place to charge bicycles?" and add 
> service:bicycle:charging=yes to the object if that's the case.
>
> Just my random thoughts on the subject though :)
>
> Joost
>
> Op di 28 sep. 2021 21:29 schreef Pieter Vander Vennet 
> <pietervdvn at posteo.net <mailto:pietervdvn at posteo.net>>:
>
>     Hi everyone,
>
>     I'm trying to amend the charging-stations/restaurants theme on
>     mapcomplete and want to add wether a restaurant/pub/cafe/... offers
>     access to electricity (e.g. to take the battery of your electrical
>     bike
>     inside to charge it, or to charge your phone).
>
>     However, I'm a bit conflicted on which tagging to use. I'm
>     thinking in
>     the direction of `service:electricity=yes|customers|no|ask_staff`.
>     `service:bicycle:charging` would be fitting too, however, access to
>     electricity is broader then just charging bicycles and I don't
>     think you
>     can take you bicycle inside of most restaurants.
>
>     Note that charging stations (e.g. a plug provided at the bicycle
>     parking) should be mapped as a separate point with
>     `amenity=charging_station` (eventually with `access=customers`).
>
>     Anyone have an opinion on this?
>
>     -- 
>     Met vriendelijke groeten,
>     Pieter Vander Vennet
>
>
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