[Talk-ca] Some french translation advice

[john whelan]

I was responsible for software and hardware in a federal government
department.  One of the things I discovered is that French in Canada is
actually quite fragmented.  For example accented upper case characters are
not used in France but depending on the school board were sometimes taught
in Canada.  The language used locally seems to differ according to which
part of France or even the world they emigrated from.

Getting consensus or an authority is difficult, locally Xyz Cresent is
signed "cr Xyz Cr".  When doing the French translation in Ottawa it was
only the fifth Francophone I spoke to who knew that the correct translation
was croissant Xyz and their husband who is also Francophone expressed
surprise as it was something he hadn't known.  Note also the use of lower
case for croissant.

If you ask five librarians to catalog a book, you would normally get six
different classifications.

Locally two francophones talking will switch language several times per
minute, using the English phrase or French phrase which most closely
reflects what they are trying to say and they see nothing wrong in doing
that.  Even a pair of old ladies in the post office will do it.  In other
areas of Canada this is less likely to happen.

Think of who your target audience is supposed to be, French tourists from
France, local francophones, from which school board?  People from Quebec?
If a local francophone feels it is important let them be the authority and
enter in the names.  They'll also need to be able to display the
information, Maperitive can do this by the way.

If you feel something must be done then enquire from the body responsible
for the road, if its federal government there should be an official French
translation.  If its another level of government they are the authority on
what the name should be.

Based on my experience I'd say the best thing to do is nothing.  Should you
insert a name which is different to that of the body who is responsible for
the road you'll add confusion, if its based on one or two Francophones
opinions then it is their opinion.  As Daniel says some things just don't
translate.

Cheerio John



On 22 January 2012 07:27, Jonathan Crowe <jonathan.crowe at gmail.com> wrote:

> In practice, people are much more likely to use "Highway 59" rather
> than "Provincial Trunk Highway 59." Even if the latter is the formally
> correct name, it's extremely cumbersome and stilted; can you imagine
> it in text-to-speech driving directions?
>
> For French names of Manitoba highways, I'd consider using "Route," as
> is done in Quebec -- i.e., if name:en=Highway 59, then name:fr=Route
> 59. But what is the Franco-Manitoban practice? That's what should
> determine it.
>
> Other points: "Provincial Trunk Highway" would be wrong for 1, 16, 100
> and 101; I'd use "Trans-Canada Highway" for 1 (except where it's a
> street), "Yellowhead Highway" for 16, and "Perimeter Highway" for 100
> and 101.
>
> (I seem to have become a descriptivist rather than a prescriptivist.
> We're making a map for people to use, not a GIS with precise
> definitions.)
>
> Note that provincial roads begin at 200. 110 is a trunk highway.
>
> Also note that highways frequently have street names, especially when
> passing through towns, but also sometimes in nominally rural areas. A
> plugin might break all kinds of correct names.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Daniel Begin <jfd553 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Bonjour Tyler,
> >
> > I don't know the best practices about naming roads when a road is not
> really
> > named like "Tyler Gunn Trunk Highway". I prefer not adding any name tag
> when
> > the name tag would actually be a combination of other tags and context as
> > you suggest...
> >
> > Context: with few exceptions, all Canadian roads are provincial or
> municipal
> > tag highway=trunk
> > tag ref=99
> >
> > then, a "name=Provincial Trunk Highway 99" tag seems a bit artificial for
> > me.
> >
> > However, to answer your questions
> > - Provincial Trunk Highway XY: As there is no real translation for trunk
> in
> > this context, so I would suggest "route provinciale XY"
> > - Provincial Road XYX: I would suggest "route provinciale XYX"
> >
> > Best regards
> > Daniel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tyler Gunn [mailto:tyler at egunn.com]
> > Sent: January-11-12 10:53
> > To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
> > Subject: [Talk-ca] Some french translation advice
> >
> > I'm working on a JOSM plugin to help rename/reclassify provincial
> > roads and provincial trunk highways in Manitoba in the Canvec data.
> > The goal is to enforce a common naming for PRs and PTHs in MB.
> >
> > Generally, highways with ref=0-99 are considered "Provincial Trunk
> > Highways", and as such I've got the following names:
> > EN: Provincial Trunk Highway XY
> > FR: route provinciale à grande circulation XY
> >
> > Generally, highways with ref>99 are considered "Provincial Roads", as
> > as such I've got the following names:
> > EN = Provincial Road XYX
> > FR = route provinciale secondaire XYZ
> >
> > These are the french translations I could come up with, given my very
> > limited understanding of the French language.
> >
> > Could someone proof these for me and let me know if I'm completely off
> base?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tyler
> >
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Crowe
> http://www.jonathancrowe.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
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>
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