[Talk-ca] Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario and Quebec

Pierre Béland pierzenh at yahoo.fr
Mon May 10 21:03:58 UTC 2021 

Jherome,
Si je compares l'autoroute 417 vers Ottawa, j'observe les même conventions qu'au Québec pour numéroter les sorties en km à partir du début de l'autoroute (Frontière du Québec pour la 417).  L'ajout du nom sur la node de la sortie est de toute évidence pour le rendu, mais au détriment de tous les autres éléments. Cela rend difficile de repérer le no. de sortie et en milieu urbain ces noms de lieux encombrent la carte rendant illisible le reste.
Lorsque je donne des instructions à quelqu'un je donne toujours les instructions
1. le no. de sortie ( node highway motorway_junction )
2. ensuite suivre en direction de tel lieu ou route ( chemin highway motorway_link, destination ...  )

Et c'est ce que font les outils de navigation. Ils indiquent d'abord le no. de sortie ( node highway motorway_junction) et ensuite le nom de la destination sur bretelle de sortie, là où doivent apparaitre les noms ( chemin highway motorway_link ).

 
Pierre 
 

    Le lundi 10 mai 2021 14 h 55 min 48 s UTC−4, Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com> a écrit :  
 
 It may not be a tagging for the renderer issue, but it also has something to do with Ontarians saying “(road name) exit” instead of “exit (number)” as in Western Canada. Don't know how do Québécois refer to autoroute exits.

On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 5:46 PM <talk-ca-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario and Quebec
      (Jherome Miguel)
   2. Re:  Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario and Quebec
      (James)
   3. Re:  Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario and Quebec
      (Jarek Piórkowski)
   4. Re:  Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario and Quebec
      (Pierre Béland)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 14:30:55 -0600
From: Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com>
To: "talk-ca at openstreetmap.org" <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [Talk-ca] Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario and
        Quebec
Message-ID:
        <CAFQ7s768ZKU1xaZWKg8gueqOPjkd=wiNtDDxkH7k+dp_cbnRKg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the list, but I'm reviving an older discussion about dealing
with freeway/expressway/parkway/autoroute exits in Ontario and Quebec that
use the name=* key to represent destination names that could be tagged on
the ramp than on the exit. I've been able to mop some of these out in
places such as the 412 and the 418, and part of the 407 in the GTA, the 401
around Windsor, Autoroute 5 around Gatineau, and a short segment of the
Conestoga Parkway at Kitchener-Waterloo, but there are thousands of these
that remain, whether it be on the 400-series highways, the autoroutes of
Quebec, or even Toronto's expressways like the Gardiner or the Allen. Some
of my changes reverting those addition have been undone by others. Most of
these are added by a user named “BlueJaysFan86”, while some around
Gatineau, Montreal, and Quebec City are added by a few others.
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 16:44:03 -0400
From: James <james2432 at gmail.com>
To: Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca]  Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario
        and Quebec
Message-ID:
        <CANk4qi_U3i38xCo6+sNE9n_+v0cPSXH1bKEKJ1wK-yEsH935oA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I think we were following this convention:

https://labs.mapbox.com/mapping/mapping-for-navigation/adding-exit-and-destination-signs/

On Sat., May 8, 2021, 4:34 p.m. Jherome Miguel, <jheromemiguel at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm new to the list, but I'm reviving an older discussion about dealing
> with freeway/expressway/parkway/autoroute exits in Ontario and Quebec that
> use the name=* key to represent destination names that could be tagged on
> the ramp than on the exit. I've been able to mop some of these out in
> places such as the 412 and the 418, and part of the 407 in the GTA, the 401
> around Windsor, Autoroute 5 around Gatineau, and a short segment of the
> Conestoga Parkway at Kitchener-Waterloo, but there are thousands of these
> that remain, whether it be on the 400-series highways, the autoroutes of
> Quebec, or even Toronto's expressways like the Gardiner or the Allen. Some
> of my changes reverting those addition have been undone by others. Most of
> these are added by a user named “BlueJaysFan86”, while some around
> Gatineau, Montreal, and Quebec City are added by a few others.
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 19:35:09 -0400
From: Jarek Piórkowski <jarek at piorkowski.ca>
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca]  Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario
        and Quebec
Message-ID:
        <CACV3h2kVyUogzLJ++bZ1+u-kdTmNbrGrtDAG_Z6QRJbY_pxmNA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Unfortunately It's a pretty usual OSM problem... editors are at fault
for tagging for the renderer, and osm-carto is arguably at fault for
rendering name=* on exit nodes. [1]

Tagging destination as name of node gets pretty unwieldy with names
like "Kipling Avenue;Islington Avenue;Park Lawn Road", but other than
the ref, name is the only tag that renders, so in it goes...

Personally I agree with not having the destinations in the name, but
it might be a bit of an uphill battle here - be sure it's one you want
to spend your energy on.


[1] I think the initial idea in Europe was that this would be used for
junctions that actually have names like "Denham Interchange" or
"Dreieck Barnim" ("Freeman Interchange" is one I know of in Ontario).
>From my Canadian point of view these would be better on a
locality-style node in the middle of the junction, or a relation
containing the junction nodes, not tagged on several exit nodes. But
that's not really a thing, so here we are.

--Jarek

On Sat, 8 May 2021 at 16:47, James <james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think we were following this convention:
>
> https://labs.mapbox.com/mapping/mapping-for-navigation/adding-exit-and-destination-signs/
>
> On Sat., May 8, 2021, 4:34 p.m. Jherome Miguel, <jheromemiguel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm new to the list, but I'm reviving an older discussion about dealing with freeway/expressway/parkway/autoroute exits in Ontario and Quebec that use the name=* key to represent destination names that could be tagged on the ramp than on the exit. I've been able to mop some of these out in places such as the 412 and the 418, and part of the 407 in the GTA, the 401 around Windsor, Autoroute 5 around Gatineau, and a short segment of the Conestoga Parkway at Kitchener-Waterloo, but there are thousands of these that remain, whether it be on the 400-series highways, the autoroutes of Quebec, or even Toronto's expressways like the Gardiner or the Allen. Some of my changes reverting those addition have been undone by others. Most of these are added by a user named “BlueJaysFan86”, while some around Gatineau, Montreal, and Quebec City are added by a few others.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-ca mailing list
>> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 23:44:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>,  Jarek
        Piórkowski <jarek at piorkowski.ca>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca]  Revisiting exits with “names” in Ontario
        and Quebec
Message-ID: <1675098644.3035519.1620517466229 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Je penses que nous sommes tous d'accord la-dessus. J'ai fait de nombreuses modifications autour de Montréal, mais malheuresement oui il y a constamment des contributeurs qui observent ailleurs et ajoutent le nom sur le noeud de la jonction avec la sortie.  Si quelqu'un à la patience ...

 
Pierre 


    Le samedi 8 mai 2021 19 h 37 min 38 s UTC−4, Jarek Piórkowski <jarek at piorkowski.ca> a écrit :  

 Unfortunately It's a pretty usual OSM problem... editors are at fault
for tagging for the renderer, and osm-carto is arguably at fault for
rendering name=* on exit nodes. [1]

Tagging destination as name of node gets pretty unwieldy with names
like "Kipling Avenue;Islington Avenue;Park Lawn Road", but other than
the ref, name is the only tag that renders, so in it goes...

Personally I agree with not having the destinations in the name, but
it might be a bit of an uphill battle here - be sure it's one you want
to spend your energy on.


[1] I think the initial idea in Europe was that this would be used for
junctions that actually have names like "Denham Interchange" or
"Dreieck Barnim" ("Freeman Interchange" is one I know of in Ontario).
>From my Canadian point of view these would be better on a
locality-style node in the middle of the junction, or a relation
containing the junction nodes, not tagged on several exit nodes. But
that's not really a thing, so here we are.

--Jarek

On Sat, 8 May 2021 at 16:47, James <james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think we were following this convention:
>
> https://labs.mapbox.com/mapping/mapping-for-navigation/adding-exit-and-destination-signs/
>
> On Sat., May 8, 2021, 4:34 p.m. Jherome Miguel, <jheromemiguel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm new to the list, but I'm reviving an older discussion about dealing with freeway/expressway/parkway/autoroute exits in Ontario and Quebec that use the name=* key to represent destination names that could be tagged on the ramp than on the exit. I've been able to mop some of these out in places such as the 412 and the 418, and part of the 407 in the GTA, the 401 around Windsor, Autoroute 5 around Gatineau, and a short segment of the Conestoga Parkway at Kitchener-Waterloo, but there are thousands of these that remain, whether it be on the 400-series highways, the autoroutes of Quebec, or even Toronto's expressways like the Gardiner or the Allen. Some of my changes reverting those addition have been undone by others. Most of these are added by a user named “BlueJaysFan86”, while some around Gatineau, Montreal, and Quebec City are added by a few others.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-ca mailing list
>> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

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