[Talk-ca] What do I poutine the name tag of a road with a suffix?

Thu Dec 15 23:12:19 UTC 2022

This is kinda interesting, seeing all you people have a big long discussion
about how to map where I live.  If you want me to go out my door and take a
picture of a street sign, I'd be happy to.  Street signs have NW, NE,
whatever on them, not the whole word, if they have that at all.  Small
suburban named roads don't generally seem to, I would think because once
you got that deep into a neighbourhood, you already know you're in a
given quadrant so no point wasting ink to keep telling you that on the
sign.  Someone earlier said something along the lines of "according to a
friend of a friend who lives in Calgary..."  Well, I do live here.  Ask
your questions about what this city does.

As for who names streets, I'd say the City of Calgary seems pretty
confident that's their job.  "The Calgary Planning Commission and Council
approve street names."  From
https://www.calgary.ca/development/addressing.html

For how the city stores this data in a database, check this out:

https://data.calgary.ca/Base-Maps/Parcel-Address-Data-Lens/r3gn-538m

You'll see both the "address" and "street_quad" fields just have a two
letter abbreviation in them.  I'm not saying it's the right way to do it, I
am a computer nerd and understand that good data is important, but that's
how we roll in Calgary.  If I asked someone "write down your address" and
they wrote down 123 4 St NE, that'd make all the sense in the world to me.
Yes, out loud I would say "northeast", but I'd never write it that way or
expect to see it on a sign that way.  That's way too much work/writing.

As for history, why did we Calgarians map it this way?  I'd like to think
I'm part of that history, and we did it based on the old ethos of "map what
you see on the ground", not some perfect form of data science.

Anyway, like I said, if I can help anyone understand Calgary or Alberta
better, from the point of view of just a regular user of maps and
occasional mapper of things I see on the ground, not a pro cartologist,
happy to tell you what I can.

Ian

On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 13:06, Kevin Farrugia <kevinfarrugia at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Not necessarily, in Ontario it's the municipalities that approve street
> names and creates addresses (developers propose the street name).  Not sure
> how it works in Alberta, but I know Ontario gets the names from the
> municipalities and then the Feds get it from the province (i.e. local
> street dataset --> Ontario Road Network --> National Road Network).  In
> Ontario the province doesn't really have any say since it's left up to the
> municipal street naming committee.  Again, check with the Alberta
> situation, but I can't see them wanting to get into street naming...
>
> -Kevin
>
> <kevinfarrugia at gmail.com>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:36 PM Pierre Béland via Talk-ca <
> talk-ca at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Iain,
>>
>> Ce sont les provinces et territoires qui sont responsables d'établir les
>> noms officiels dans leur juridiction et d'accepter les propositions des
>> municipalités
>>
>> Le répertoire des données fédérales contient les données fournies par
>> chaque province et territoire. Ce répeertoire est publié avec une licence
>> de données ouvertes compatible avec OSM.  Lors de l'ajout d'un nom de rue,
>> il est toujours possible d'indiquer
>> source = NRN Canada / Alberta.
>>
>> Les autres noms de lieux (ie.  ville, lac, etc) sont disponibles via la
>> deuxième source de données nationale
>> https://toponymes.rncan.gc.ca/search-place-names/search
>>
>> Par exemple, si je recherche sur ce site fédéral [Lesser Slave Lake] :
>> j'obtiens le polygone du lac et on y indique que la source est [Alberta-Ministry
>> of Culture and Status of Women], donc le gouvernement d'Alberta.
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> Le jeudi 15 décembre 2022 à 14 h 05 min 44 s UTC−5, Iain Ingram <
>> iain at monkeyface.ca> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Thank you Pierre.
>>
>> As mention in this article it points back to Alberta database. My
>> understanding is we go federal as you provided.
>>
>> Iain
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2022, at 12:01, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> voir https://www.alberta.ca/alberta-geographical-names-program.aspx
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> Le jeudi 15 décembre 2022 à 12 h 32 min 14 s UTC−5, iain at monkeyface.ca <
>> iain at monkeyface.ca> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Martin,
>>
>> I asked for the gazette article that was never provided. I am not
>> disagreeing with abbreviation. I am asking what source we use as the
>> federal provincial and municipal do no match. I assume you know this
>> reading the sources I provided you.
>>
>> The correct answer could have been we use federal sources only not
>> provincial or municipal. And that is a perfectly fine answer. I expect the
>> wiki to reflect this. I would also expect it to be clear on items we don’t
>> have federal documents for and how those names should be handled.
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Martin Chalifoux <
>> martin.chalifoux at icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>> If this helps. And I think Pierre in his post provided links to databases
>> that provide non-abbreviated names for Alberta.
>>
>> abbreviation | əˌbriːvɪˈeɪʃn  | noun a shortened form of a word or phrase
>> : the chemical symbol Ag is an abbreviation of the Latin word for
>> silver, argentum | use simple words and no abbreviations. • [mass noun] the
>> process of abbreviating something: nursing records must be written
>> without abbreviation. ORIGIN late Middle English: from Anglo-Norman
>> French abreviation, from ecclesiastical Latin abbreviatio(n-), from the
>> verb abbreviare (see abbreviate).
>>
>> From Pierre B’eland Post:
>> ____________________
>> Permettez-moi de revenir sur le sujet des répertoires de données
>> officielles au Canada. J'ai pris le temps de télécharger les données pour
>> l'Alberta et j'y constate que les noms sont écrits sans abbréviation ie.
>> South-East, South-West et non SE, SW.
>> (voir liens NRN plus bas).
>>
>> Les données officielles sont collectées par les provinces et territoires.
>> Le gouvernement fédéral y ajoute de données fédérales telles que Pacs
>> nationaux.
>>
>> La Commission de toponymie du Canada - Geographical Names Board of
>> Canada gère ces données. Cette Commission comprend des représentants
>> des provinces et territoires et ministères fédéraux.
>>
>> https://www.rncan.gc.ca/sciences-de-la-terre/geographie/commission-de-toponymie-du-canada/11085
>>
>> https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/earth-sciences/geography/geographical-names-board-canada/11084
>>
>> De là des répertoires sont disponibles notamment sur le site des données
>> ouvertes du Canada.
>> Voici deux grands répertoires de données vectorielles qui nous intéressent
>>
>> 1.  Noms de lieux - Toponymes du Canada  - Geographical names in Canada
>> FR
>> https://www.rncan.gc.ca/cartes-outils-et-publications/cartes/toponymes-canada/10804
>> EN
>> https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/maps-tools-and-publications/maps/geographical-names-canada/10786
>>
>> 2. Réseau routier national - National Road Network (NRN)
>> FR https://www.statcan.gc.ca/fr/consultation/2019/rrn
>> EN https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/consultation/2019/nrn
>>
>>
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