[Talk-ca] What do I poutine the name tag of a road with a suffix?

[Jarek Piórkowski]

Hello everyone,

I am pretty astounded by the suggestion here.

Is the suggestion seriously to use a dataset put together by the federal government to override provincial and local norms, because some non-local mappers 3000 km away think that's more correct?

Can anyone think of community issues, political issues, or for that matter even practical issues with this suggestion?

I went to spot-check and it took me a couple of minutes to find an area of Montréal where NRN linked by Pierre is different from data we have in OSM. You can see https://search.open.canada.ca/openmap/3d282116-e556-400c-9306-ca1a3cada77f to use a web viewer and zoom in on area of boulevard Pie-IX and rue Jarry Est. The NRN web view shows names like "Av 25e" and "Rue 39e". My JOSM's "Geobase Roads - French" layer similarly shows "Avenue 25e" and "Rue 39e" for these streets. OSM has "39e Rue" and "25e Avenue". I spot-checked a town in Lanaudière and found the same format difference.

Will you change the names of these Montréal streets because NRN says so?

Or is the suggestion that NRN is good enough to tell Calgarians that "NW" must be written out "Northwest", but not good enough to tell Montréalers how to name numbered streets?

The hang-up seems to be about abbreviations and OSM's policy of avoiding them. No policy can be applied blindly. Every policy has areas where locals believe it doesn't apply. I will again bring up the example of the UK town St Ives. It's pronounced "saint" and it is accepted that the town is in fact named after a saint. But the name in OSM is St Ives. Because the name of the town is St Ives. Because that's what the people there think the name is.

--Jarek
(a mapper in southern Ontario)

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, at 11:49, Pierre Béland via Talk-ca wrote:
> NRN Alberta, Voir
> 
> https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9306-ca1a3cada77f
> ** 
> Pierre **
> 
> 
> Le jeudi 15 décembre 2022 à 11 h 43 min 30 s UTC−5, Iain Ingram <iain at monkeyface.ca> a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> I have provided the survey act of Alberta and the ATS. Please provide your comments on those sources.
> 
> Please provide your source. I also looked at your resource Canada link and could not find the gazette article for Alberta you can send me the link to the article I would appreciate reading it.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> 
>> Iain,
>> 
>> C'est moi qui ai observé cela en regardant la carte de Calgary.  Confirmes-tu que Calgary est implicitement divisée en quadrants Northwest, Northeast, Southeast, Southwest et dans ces sections le suffixe correspondant au cadran ajouté systématiquement au nom de rue ? Sinon, peux-tu nous démontrer le contraire ?
>> ** 
>> Pierre **
>> 
>> 
>> Le jeudi 15 décembre 2022 à 11 h 16 min 38 s UTC−5, Iain Ingram <iain at monkeyface.ca> a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> Martin,
>> 
>> As you and others have seen no valid arguments can you please provide any documentation that Alberta uses a cardinal system for naming? I fully agree that in areas that use abbreviation it should be expanded. Now I ask for something that supports that these names are actually abbreviated. 
>> 
>> Further to that I would also like the guidance around expanding legal land as that is how you add addresses to rural areas. If these are to be expanded or not?
>> 
>> This is a large change to Alberta and it extends more than just a display name or expanding an abbreviation. Because that is not actually what we are doing we are changing the name. I do support no abbreviations but I would like to see the support that these are abbreviations. I have provided that they are not and no comments back. I could be mistaken.
>> 
>> Iain
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