[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Fwd: OpenData policy

Sat Apr 12 14:38:41 UTC 2014

Hi Brian,

So they are saying that the Crown Copyright statement applied to an earlier
version and they acknowledge that they can remove it if they want now that
they have switched to using OS OpenData. But... they want to wait until the
proper consultation period and when their data quality will have improved.

This (i.e. "we want to improve the data quality first") is a common reason
for not releasing Open Data. It doesn't align with the principles of the
Open Data groups who prefer a "release early, then update" approach.

I guess it's up to you as to how early you want to get hold of the data, or
whether it is best to wait until it has been formalised. As OSM is all
about what's on the ground right now, then I'd be happy to wait.

Regards,
Rob

On 12 April 2014 14:44, Brian Prangle <brian at mappa-mercia.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> This is the response I've received. I haven't formulated a response yet.
> At first sight it looks positive, but a second reading reveals
> inconsistencies. Any thoughts greatly appreciated before I respond.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Councillor James McKay <James.McKay at birmingham.gov.uk>
> Date: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:43 PM
> Subject: RE: OpenData policy
> To: Brian Prangle <brian at mappa-mercia.org>
>
>
>  Dear  Brian
>
>
>
> In response to your query about the maps published that illustrate the
> 20mph zones and if these could be released as public open data:
>
>
>
> *Reason why the maps have been published as .pdf documents with Crown
> Copyright*
>
> The maps were initially produced to be used as hardcopy in face to face
> meetings with residents to prepare the full public consultation. These were
> origninally based on the A-Z map background to make it easier for residents
> to relate to their local area.  A-Z maps require the copyright statement.
> During the meetings it became clear that many residents did not understand
> what the statement of '90% of roads could be made into 20mph zones' related
> to, e.g. questioning if Hagley Road would now receive a speed limit.  It
> was therefore decided that the existing (copyrighted) maps should be
> published as soon as possible on the web for widest reach.   This meant
> that the map background was changed from A-Z to OS, which no longer needs
> to have the Crown copyright. However, the standard statement remained on
> the maps.
>
>
>
> *Release as Open Data*
>
> The Transportation Team has the *full intention to release the mapping
> information as public open data*, when the official consultation starts
> in summer. The current maps have already triggered comments about
> corrections needed to some of the road markings and the team is aware that
> some level of data cleansing is still required.  Transportation is
> collecting these requests and amending the data.  They will publish the
> data layers as public open data, when data cleansing has taken place.  This
> is to avoid different versions of the maps being circulated, which could
> happen if the current data layers were published and independently
> corrected by individuals.
>
>
>
> Also, the council currently only has the data for the 10% of roads that
> are NOT eligible for the 20mph approach, which has been mapped. The data
> for the 90% of streets that could be 20mph is not available.  Therefore
> only the data layer for the 10% can be published.
>
>
>
> The officer responsible for the maps is Will Martin
> will.martin at birmingham.gov.uk who is happy to talk to you directly and
> update you on progress of the planned publication as open data.
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> James
>
>
>
> Cllr James McKay
> Harborne ward
> Cabinet Member for a Green, Safe and Smart City
>
>
>
> Sent on: Friday, 11 April 2014
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Prangle [mailto:brian at mappa-mercia.org]
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:30 PM
> *To:* Councillor James McKay
> *Subject:* Re: OpenData policy
>
>
>
> Councillor McKay
>
> Thanks for your prompt action on this - I look forward to some progress
> after many months of frustration. It will be great to see Birmingham more
> in the forefront on OpenData rather than a laggard behind the likes of
> Glasgow and Nottingham.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Councillor James McKay <
> James.McKay at birmingham.gov.uk> wrote:
>
> Thanks John, Brian.
>
>
>
> I have referred the query on, and will come back to you both ASAP.
>
>
>
> James
>
>
>
> Cllr James McKay
>
> Harborne ward, Birmingham City Council
>
> Cabinet Member for a Green, Safe and Smart City
>
> 0121 3033509
>
>
>
>
> On 29 Mar 2014, at 12:08, "Councillor John O'Shea" <
> John.O'Shea at birmingham.gov.uk> wrote:
>
>  Brian,
>
> I couldn't agree more.
>
> I've argued for open data as a councillor and a member of the Transport,
> Connectivity and Sustainability Committee. I entirely support the
> OpenStreetmap project and believe that we should be embracing it and
> encouraging it.
>
> James/Ian - I suspect this might be an oversight in licencing terms. Could
> you have a look at it and let me know, as well as Mr Prangle, when it can
> be resolved or what insurmountable problems lie in the way of opening up
> our data to the people?
>
> Regards,
>
> John O'Shea
> Cllr John O'Shea
> Labour
> Chair, Acocks Green Ward Committee
> Tel 07867 469886
> Working with Cllr Stewart Stacey for Acocks Green
>
>
> *From*: Brian Prangle [mailto:brian at mappa-mercia.org<brian at mappa-mercia.org>]
>
> *Sent*: Friday, March 28, 2014 03:51 PM
> *To*: Councillor James McKay
> *Cc*: Councillor John O'Shea
> *Subject*: OpenData policy
>
>
> Dear Councillor McKay
>
> I am writing to you in your capacity of being responsible for Smart City
> policy (I've also copied my local councillor who I shall be lobbying
> separately).
>
> Birmingham City Council has a worthy OpenData Policy for which v2.0 was
> published in 2013. A key principle established in the policy  is:
>
>
>
> "All data will be published with a UK Open Government Licence"
>
>
>
> The recent publication of data relating to the creation of new 20mph
> zones within the City<http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Road-Safety%2FPageLayout&cid=1223445027910&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FInlineWrapper>does not comply with this policy. Whilst it is published on Ordnance Survey
> OpenData base maps you claim Crown Copyright. We want to use this data to
> incorporate into an online map - OpenStreetMap- as the 20 mph zones are
> rolled out, thereby contributing to Birmingham being a Smart City with its
> citizens producing an online map that keeps up to date with the city's
> infrastructure. However we cannot do so until the data is published
> unequivocally under an OpenData licence as required by your policy.
>
>
>
> Notwithstanding you claiming Crown Copyright on an OpenData Ordnance
> Survey base map, there are also specific exemptions that local
> authorities can apply for from Ordnance Survey<http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/public-sector/guidance/derived-data-exemptions.html>
>
> Your OpenData policy also states:
>
>
>
> "The responsibility for ensuring compliance with the Open Data principles
> lies with the Performance and Information Division within the Corporate
> Resources Directorate"
>
>
>
> I urge you to refer this non-compliance  as required above for an early
> resolution so we can start using the data, and I look forward to the
> publication of this data in an open format under  a UK Open Government
> Licence.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Brian Prangle
>
> Community Co-ordinator
>
> 0121 604 1141
>
>
>
>
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