[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Fwd: OpenData policy
jonathan
jonathan at bigfatfrog67.me
Sun Apr 13 09:45:49 UTC 2014
I agree with Rob's take and response.
Jonathan
http://bigfatfrog67.me
On 12/04/2014 15:38, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
> So they are saying that the Crown Copyright statement applied to an
> earlier version and they acknowledge that they can remove it if they
> want now that they have switched to using OS OpenData. But... they
> want to wait until the proper consultation period and when their data
> quality will have improved.
>
> This (i.e. "we want to improve the data quality first") is a common
> reason for not releasing Open Data. It doesn't align with the
> principles of the Open Data groups who prefer a "release early, then
> update" approach.
>
> I guess it's up to you as to how early you want to get hold of the
> data, or whether it is best to wait until it has been formalised. As
> OSM is all about what's on the ground right now, then I'd be happy to
> wait.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
> On 12 April 2014 14:44, Brian Prangle <brian at mappa-mercia.org
> <mailto:brian at mappa-mercia.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
>
> This is the response I've received. I haven't formulated a
> response yet. At first sight it looks positive, but a second
> reading reveals inconsistencies. Any thoughts greatly appreciated
> before I respond.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Councillor James McKay* <James.McKay at birmingham.gov.uk
> <mailto:James.McKay at birmingham.gov.uk>>
> Date: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:43 PM
> Subject: RE: OpenData policy
> To: Brian Prangle <brian at mappa-mercia.org
> <mailto:brian at mappa-mercia.org>>
>
>
> Dear Brian
>
> In response to your query about the maps published that illustrate
> the 20mph zones and if these could be released as public open data:
>
> _Reason why the maps have been published as .pdf documents with
> Crown Copyright_
>
> The maps were initially produced to be used as hardcopy in face to
> face meetings with residents to prepare the full public
> consultation. These were origninally based on the A-Z map
> background to make it easier for residents to relate to their
> local area. A-Z maps require the copyright statement. During the
> meetings it became clear that many residents did not understand
> what the statement of '90% of roads could be made into 20mph
> zones' related to, e.g. questioning if Hagley Road would now
> receive a speed limit. It was therefore decided that the existing
> (copyrighted) maps should be published as soon as possible on the
> web for widest reach. This meant that the map background was
> changed from A-Z to OS, which no longer needs to have the Crown
> copyright. However, the standard statement remained on the maps.
>
> _Release as Open Data_
>
> The Transportation Team has the *full intention to release the
> mapping information as public open data*, when**the official
> consultation starts in summer. The current maps have already
> triggered comments about corrections needed to some of the road
> markings and the team is aware that some level of data cleansing
> is still required. Transportation is collecting these requests
> and amending the data. They will publish the data layers as
> public open data, when data cleansing has taken place. This is to
> avoid different versions of the maps being circulated, which could
> happen if the current data layers were published and independently
> corrected by individuals.
>
> Also, the council currently only has the data for the 10% of roads
> that are NOT eligible for the 20mph approach, which has been
> mapped. The data for the 90% of streets that could be 20mph is not
> available. Therefore only the data layer for the 10% can be
> published.
>
> The officer responsible for the maps is Will Martin
> will.martin at birmingham.gov.uk
> <mailto:will.martin at birmingham.gov.uk> who is happy to talk to you
> directly and update you on progress of the planned publication as
> open data.
>
> Best regards
>
> James
>
> Cllr James McKay
> Harborne ward
> Cabinet Member for a Green, Safe and Smart City
>
> Sent on: Friday, 11 April 2014
>
> *From:*Brian Prangle [mailto:brian at mappa-mercia.org
> <mailto:brian at mappa-mercia.org>]
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:30 PM
> *To:* Councillor James McKay
> *Subject:* Re: OpenData policy
>
> Councillor McKay
>
> Thanks for your prompt action on this - I look forward to some
> progress after many months of frustration. It will be great to see
> Birmingham more in the forefront on OpenData rather than a laggard
> behind the likes of Glasgow and Nottingham.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Councillor James McKay
> <James.McKay at birmingham.gov.uk
> <mailto:James.McKay at birmingham.gov.uk>> wrote:
>
> Thanks John, Brian.
>
> I have referred the query on, and will come back to you both ASAP.
>
> James
>
> Cllr James McKay
>
> Harborne ward, Birmingham City Council
>
> Cabinet Member for a Green, Safe and Smart City
>
> 0121 3033509
>
>
> On 29 Mar 2014, at 12:08, "Councillor John O'Shea"
> <John.O'Shea at birmingham.gov.uk
> <mailto:John.O%27Shea at birmingham.gov.uk>> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> I couldn't agree more.
>
> I've argued for open data as a councillor and a member of the
> Transport, Connectivity and Sustainability Committee. I
> entirely support the OpenStreetmap project and believe that we
> should be embracing it and encouraging it.
>
> James/Ian - I suspect this might be an oversight in licencing
> terms. Could you have a look at it and let me know, as well as
> Mr Prangle, when it can be resolved or what insurmountable
> problems lie in the way of opening up our data to the people?
>
> Regards,
>
> John O'Shea
> Cllr John O'Shea
> Labour
> Chair, Acocks Green Ward Committee
> Tel 07867 469886
> Working with Cllr Stewart Stacey for Acocks Green
>
> *From*: Brian Prangle [mailto:brian at mappa-mercia.org]
> *Sent*: Friday, March 28, 2014 03:51 PM
> *To*: Councillor James McKay
> *Cc*: Councillor John O'Shea
> *Subject*: OpenData policy
>
> Dear Councillor McKay
>
> I am writing to you in your capacity of being responsible for
> Smart City policy (I've also copied my local councillor who I
> shall be lobbying separately).
>
> Birmingham City Council has a worthy OpenData Policy for which
> v2.0 was published in 2013. A key principle established in the
> policy is:
>
> "All data will be published with a UK Open Government Licence"
>
> The recent publication of data relating to the creation of new
> 20mph zones within the City
> <http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Road-Safety%2FPageLayout&cid=1223445027910&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FInlineWrapper>
> does not comply with this policy. Whilst it is published on
> Ordnance Survey OpenData base maps you claim Crown Copyright.
> We want to use this data to incorporate into an online map --
> OpenStreetMap- as the 20 mph zones are rolled out, thereby
> contributing to Birmingham being a Smart City with its
> citizens producing an online map that keeps up to date with
> the city's infrastructure. However we cannot do so until the
> data is published unequivocally under an OpenData licence as
> required by your policy.
>
> Notwithstanding you claiming Crown Copyright on an OpenData
> Ordnance Survey base map, there are also specific exemptions
> that local authorities can apply for from Ordnance Survey
> <http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/public-sector/guidance/derived-data-exemptions.html>
>
> Your OpenData policy also states:
>
> "The responsibility for ensuring compliance with the Open Data
> principles lies with the Performance and Information Division
> within the Corporate Resources Directorate"
>
> I urge you to refer this non-compliance as required above for
> an early resolution so we can start using the data, and I look
> forward to the publication of this data in an open format
> under a UK Open Government Licence.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian Prangle
>
> Community Co-ordinator
>
> 0121 604 1141
>
>
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> --
> Book your diary - Aug 9th 2014 is OSM's 10th Birthday - West
> Midlands event under preparation
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