[Talk-GB] railway stations (again)

Peter J Stoner stonerpj at mytraveline.info
Tue Apr 26 18:40:54 BST 2011

In message on 26 Apr 2011,  Peter Miller  wrote:

> Andy Allan made a post recently about former railway stations being tagged
> as railway=station and the problems that it causes. I have been reviewing
> railways in London and have come across various other instances of multiple
> station and various other problems with stations when one starts getting
> into higher levels of detail. For example:

> Baker Street. There are three separate nodes tagged
> 'railway=station,name=Baker Street' (one for each line served). In reality
> there five separate lines each of which may have 2 platforms (unless any of
> them share platforms) together with 4 entrances but only one 'station'.

> Embankment. There is a single 'railway-station' node on one of the lines
> that stop at Embankment. In reality there are four lines each of which may
> have 2 platforms (except for those that share lines) and two entrances.

> Westminster. There is a single 'railway=station' node at a crossing of the
> two lines. In reality the lines probably cross each other on different
> layers and each probably have two platforms. There are a total of 5
> entrances according the NaPTAN.

> And then there are the mainline stations which in general are more complex.
> Here are as sample:

> Kings Cross/St Pancras. There is one 'Kings Cross St Pancras', two off 'St
> Pancras' and two off 'Kings Cross'. There are areas tagged 'railway=station'
> for both Kings Cross and Paddington. Do we need a hierarchy of stations, of
> so what would be appropriate?

> London Waterloo. There is a single station marked 'London Waterloo'.
> However.. the Northern Line was dragged well off its correct alignment to
> pass through this node. I have now corrected the alignment but the line is
> now not explicitly associated with the station. Should the underground
> station be considered as part of the mainline station or not?

> Marylebone has three 'stations'. Probably two or one would be better.

> Paddington. There are two stations marked as 'Paddington' and one marked
> 'London Paddington'. The first two are tube stations, the last is the main
> line. Should there only be two?

> Regarding railway stations as areas. I have found that it is often unhelpful
> to tag complex station using an area (railway=station;area=yes) because the
> extent of the station often doesn't conform in area to the neat building
> outline on the surface - take Liverpool St station as an example where the
> extent underground is much further than the visible surface presence.

> There is also a recently proposal to clean-up public transport tagging which
> received a lot of support (83 approvals against 6 oppositions). We might be
> able to use this as guidance for a tagging review in London:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport

> Anyone fancy working on a solution that works when stations are modeled down
> to the platform level and which avoids having multiple instances of a single
> stations while retaining the correct alignment for the tracks? Incidentally,
> we have a view for railway stations on ITO Map here. If shows railway lines,
> platforms and connecting passages/stairs/escalators.
> http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=79


Jason Webb of NRES at the Rail stations 2011 conference mentioned that 
the official data for rail stations will recognise the zones within 
the stations.

If my notes are correct, then the zones are

onward travel

This categorisation could be useful to help us navigate people through 
stations.  I am hoping to find out more about this as it may be able 
to be adapted for bus stations too. .. but we also don't want the data 
to be too complicated!

Peter J Stoner
UK Coordinator         www.travelinedata.org.uk

Traveline Information Ltd company number 3826797
Drury House, 34-43 Russell Street, LONDON WC2B 5HA

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