[Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import

Thu Jul 31 16:01:06 UTC 2014

Hi,

I would not wish to see a mass import in my area, but I could see some 
merit in comparing data 'line by line'. I can remember that in the early 
days (2009?) there were bus stops on the data at the time that NaPTAN 
was imported. Some were sensibly merged, but some were deleted before 
the value of merging was realised (I was probably as ignorant of how to 
sort it out properly in those days, as anyone else, so I don't think a 
witch hunt will help).

Since then, I've made many cycle surveys in my area, and have updated 
NaPTAN stops to the extent that anything I have edited in the past is 
now in the right place & the tags will be correct. However, some of the 
imported data was so inaccurate, that it was difficult to tell whether 
it should be moved North, South East or West, to where the nearest 
actual stop was. As a result of this, it is quite possible that there 
are stops shown in the right place with the correct tags concerning 
shelters, benches, tactile paving, name of stop, timetables or bus route 
references displayed, etc, but added to a NaPTAN reference which new 
data would show to actually be elsewhere.

The only way of improving this would be a line by line comparison, with 
perhaps the transfer of a reference from new NaPTAN data, to the 
existing OSM data. If I appear in the history of the bus stop (Ctrl+h 
using JOSM), then there is a bus stop in that exact location. I suspect 
that this is true of many stops elsewhere, so some cautionary line by 
line merging is going to be needed.

I use the NOVAM - viewer from http://b3e.net/novam/ to check what needs 
doing, (Birmingham colour scheme suits my purpose). If you use this & 
zoom into Swanley, Kent (just off J3 of M25), you will find there are 
several stops which I have created, for which there is no NaPTAN data in 
the current database. It would obviously be sensible to add that data if 
you have it - just don't move the stop or change the other tags I've 
added please. You'll also see that I have marked some bus stops as 'not 
physically present'......

I think most mappers have worked from 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data 
(history shows this was last updated in 2011 with most of the updates 
from 2009), but there are more recent articles at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_Transport, and I'm not sure of 
what the current position is as the 'goal posts kept moving!'

Some sensible consultation aiming towards a goal we can understand and 
achieve would be good, because I personally just reached the stage where 
I made sure the bus stops were in the correct place with the right tags, 
and left the routes part completed.

I can't offer to spend time importing on a line by line basis - I'm 
currently trying to get Ebola areas mapped in Africa! If I can help in 
other ways, let me know - it makes sense to me to present the data in a 
way it can actually be used by someone!

Regards

Nick (Tallguy)

On 31/07/14 15:47, Chris Hill wrote:
> The NaPTAN data was imported for Hull and East Yorkshire at my 
> request. I quickly realised that the data was of variable quality and 
> resurveyed the ~1300 bus stops in Hull. Having corrected a large 
> percentage of the stops, I informed the Hull council team, at their 
> request, who then ignored me. I would not want any NaPTAN data 
> re-imported in this area unless I was sure the quality has very 
> substantially improved. Some working relationship with the council 
> team who maintain the data would help too.
>
> Cheers, Chris,
> osm user: chillly
>
> On 31 July 2014 15:15:18 GMT+01:00, Stuart Reynolds 
> <stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     This is a spin off from the recent thread about imports, because I
>     wanted to specifically talk about NaPTAN imports.
>
>     Having briefly scanned the various wiki pages, I get the
>     impression that the NaPTAN data was imported, once, in 2009. What
>     I can’t see, or haven’t found, is any discussion about how & how
>     often this data is updated. NaPTAN (and associated NPTG) is a live
>     data set, and is changing continually as bus stops are brought
>     into use (e.g. new developments) and taken out of service.
>
>     As I think I have mentioned, one of the reasons that I am now on
>     this group is because of the adoption of OSM by a number of
>     traveline regions, whose members are the very local authorities
>     that create and maintain the NaPTAN data (including
>     Nottingham/Nottinghamshire, since that was mentioned in the
>     earlier thread). We therefore have an interest in making sure that
>     the stop data on OSM is as up to date as the mapping.
>
>     Is there an appetite within the community to maintain and update
>     this data? And if so, how would we go about it, and how often
>     might it be updated? For the record, the data set is change dated,
>     and deleted records are retained in the data for reference until
>     (eventually) being archived (although even then the stops are
>     still contained in a separate archive file). So I think that the
>     process of updating can be made a) robust, and b) reversible.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Stuart
>
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-- 

Nick

Volunteer 'Tallguy' for 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy

Treasurer, website & Bonus Ball admin for 
http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasurer at 6thswanleyscouts.org.uk 
<mailto:treasurer at 6thswanleyscouts.org.uk>)

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