[Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

Mick Orridge mso1 at lineone.net
Fri Dec 29 23:23:33 UTC 2017

On 28/12/17 22:33, Warin wrote:
> On 29-Dec-17 07:28 AM, Mark Goodge wrote:
>> On 28/12/2017 19:31, Lester Caine wrote:
>>> Get the return address right ...
>>> On 28/12/17 16:12, Colin Spiller wrote:
>>>> I've been adding postcodes in the Bradford BD area using Robert & 
>>>> gregrs
>>>> useful tools. I've just noticed that the Shell station at the Rooley
>>>> Lane / Rooley Avenue junction BD5 8JR is now reported as having an
>>>> incorrect postal unit (the final two letters of the postcode). This
>>>> postcode appears widely on the internet for this site, but the RM
>>>> postcode finder thinks it should be Rooley Avenue, BD6 1DA.
>>> PAF file has ...
>>> Shell Filling Station
>>> Rooley Avenue
>>> BD6 1DA
>>> and BD5 8JR is not listed having been deleted in 2009
>>> http://checkmypostcode.uk/bd58jr so the real problem is does one leave
>>> the faulty postcode in place because we can't use the PAF data or do we
>>> validate postcodes against the codepoint database and remove those that
>>> are not listed
>> It's an interesting conundrum, on several levels. We can certainly 
>> validate against Codepoint Open or the ONSPD, as these are open data. 
>> So if they say the postcode is impossible (because it's defunct), 
>> then we can definitely delete it if we want to.
>> Replacing it with the correct postcode, though, is harder. We'd need 
>> a source that isn't derived from PAF. But Googling for this 
>> particular station, all the sources have the old, incorrect postcode 
>> - even Google itself! (I would expect they're all using the Shell 
>> data, of course).
>> So that leaves us with three options, at least initially:
>> 1. Leave it as is. We know it's wrong, but it's consistent with every 
>> other source, and it's from the only canonical source.
>> 2. Replace it with the right one. More useful, but potentially risky 
>> from a licensing perspective.
>> 3. Delete it and leave the entry with no postcode. Probably the best 
>> we can do as far as accuracy is concerned (in line with the general 
>> principle that data is better missing than wrong, if it can't be 
>> right), and avoids any licence conflict. But this is the least useful 
>> for users of the data (since, in this case, even the wrong postcode 
>> will identify the location in practice - for obvious reasons, Royal 
>> Mail will deliver to defunct postcodes long after they have been 
>> deleted, and many sat-navs will work with defunct postcodes too).
>> Maybe the best solution is to leave it alone for now, and see if we 
>> can persuade Shell to fix it. Deleting the postcode risks it being 
>> re-added by someone else who spots its absence and decides to be 
>> helpful, without realising that if they use the RM postcode finder to 
>> validate it that isn't compatible with OSM's licence.
> Usually a note is used to make comments to other mappers. In this case 
> a note to say that post code xxx is defunct would explain the 
> situation. Possibly a tag 'defunct:postcode=xxx would also be 
> explanatory.
> Could the post code be derived from surrounding features?
> I don't know how detailed the post codes there are .. but if features 
> in OSM surrounding it were of the same post code (and correct) then 
> they could be used to derive the post code?
The ONS postcode file (Open Government Licence other than BT postcodes 
for NI) for August 2017 (download here:- 
holds terminated postcodes. It's entry for BD5 8JR shows a terminated 
date of 2009 06. I guess the replacement postcode could be narrowed down 
using the date introduced field along with perhaps the OA01 field (2001 
census output area) plus easting and northing.

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