[Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

Nick nick at foresters.org
Sun Dec 13 11:08:22 UTC 2020


Seems to me that apart from the tagging, the issue highlighted here is 
with how the general public cab easily use OSM? Going to the OSM map, 
the layers on offer are Standard, Cycle Map (which does show the 
driveway connected) etc. but if a user wants a more specific use this is 
not easy to find. To my mind this is where more options from the 
worldwide map fail to deliver and is a bigger issue that can be resolved 
by understanding the 'customer' journey better?

On 13/12/2020 10:28, Nick Allen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I tend to think of tagging more in terms of 'who will use this?' I 
> know my local area extremely well, so I map it as best I can using 
> tags that will make sense to anyone visiting the area. When I'm away 
> from home I use OSM extensively to find things, and hope that the 
> local mappers are using a universal scheme so that it will work for me.
>
> I've travelled on roads in Portugal, Spain an parts of Africa which 
> dont have a surface such as tarmac (tarmacadam / asphalt) or concrete, 
> but instead have been built with a top coating similar to clay, which 
> is compressed and then smoothed using a grader. Particularly in 
> Portugal, at the time I drove on them, these 'unsurfaced' roads were 
> so good that they were better than the (at that time) M25 which was 
> full of pot-holes and difficult to drive safely on.
>
> Although https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highways 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highways> is the obvious choice 
> to look at, I actually find that 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa> explains it 
> better.
>
> Regards & Happy Mapping / Surveying
>
> Nick
> (Tallguy)
>
> On Sun, 2020-12-13 at 10:08 +0000, Edward Bainton wrote:
>> >  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg 
>> <https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg>
>> >
>> > It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
>> > I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
>> > the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
>> > means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>>
>> I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland 
>> lights, I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly 
>> once it passes the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying 
>> car-worthy access to a building).
>>
>> Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
>>
>> I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer 
>> is what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging 
>> it for the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this 
>> case, I'd say track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole 
>> length, if by "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.
>>
>> But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I 
>> await correction by my olders.
>>
>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB 
>> <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
>>> >Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>>> >cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>>> >buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>>
>>>  >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg 
>>> <https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>> Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) 
>>> sounded familiar.
>>>
>>> A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  
>>> long distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following 
>>> ordinary footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this 
>>> area, the Teme Valley. It was very nice *but* the footpaths were in 
>>> an appaling state of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that 
>>> day having to scramble through dense shrub cover and attempt to 
>>> negotiate barbed-wire fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as 
>>> being the site of some particularly badly-maintained footpaths.
>>>
>>> As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted 
>>> to illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not 
>>> permit it, which is how I started Freemap and then later got 
>>> involved with OSM. I still haven't illustrated this walk 
>>> incidentally, but...
>>>
>>> Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Martin Wynne <martin at templot.com <mailto:martin at templot.com>>
>>> *Sent:* 12 December 2020 14:30
>>> *To:* talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> 
>>> <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track
>>> On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
>>> > Perhaps that someone is you?
>>>
>>> Hi Andy,
>>>
>>> Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
>>> Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
>>> and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, 
>>> possibly
>>> by hosting something from OSM.
>>>
>>>
>>>  >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
>>>  > standard map rendering as per 
>>> https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ 
>>> <https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/>
>>>  > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
>>>  > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
>>>  >
>>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475 
>>> <https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ 
>>> <https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/> but
>>> I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
>>> the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
>>> for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.
>>>
>>> I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
>>> creating my own map does appeal to me.
>>>
>>> Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>>> cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>>> buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>>
>>> https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg 
>>> <https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg>
>>>
>>> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
>>> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging 
>>> for
>>> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
>>> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>>>
>>> This is where the farm drive leaves the road - this is definitely more
>>> than a "track" - note the double gates:
>>>
>>> https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8 
>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8>
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Martin.
>>>
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