[Talk-GB] Listed status / scheduled monument

[Jez Nicholson]

I believe that the Listed Buildings refs are fairly old. The whole thing
might warrant a revisit, and perhaps a Quarterly Project?

I would be happy for a new-style ref:GB:he (or similar) and an automated
edit. After discussion obviously.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 20:57 Dave Dunford, <dunford.dave at gmail.com> wrote:

> The most logical and consistent scheme would seem to me to be - contrary
> to Key:listed_status
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:listed_status#England> and
> established consensus:
>
>     <*heritage*_status=Scheduled Monument> (which would also work for
> <heritage_status=Grade I>, etc.)
>     <ref:he=*> (in line with other numeric referencing systems; my
> understanding is that HE don't use any other number systems, though you
> sometimes see their pre-NHLE numbers quoted, which could be tagged
> appropriately)
>
> <listed_status=Scheduled Monument> feels internally contradictory.
> <HE_ref=*> is inconsistent with other referencing schemes.
>
> But it's an awfully well-established consensus...
>
> Incidentally, some structures are both Listed Buildings and Scheduled
> Monuments (notably crosses and bridges, in my experience), or you get
> Listed Buildings (defined by HE as a single point) within scheduled
> monuments (defined by HE as an area). Yours is a case in point: the Priory
> building is a Grade I listed building (
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1062210) and
> the Priory Farmhouse is Grade II (
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1360390) and
> both are within the area defined as a scheduled monument.
>
> Third observation - whatever we do, we should t call them "Scheduled
> Monuments" as HE do, rather than the dated "Scheduled Ancient Monuments"
> (quite a lot of them - e.g. Victorian lead mines in my part of the world -
> aren't that ancient).
>
> Dave <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:listed_status#England>
>
> On 26/09/2020 13:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I'd like to map St Leonard's Priory, Stamford, Lincs:
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1007690
>
> This is a 'scheduled monument'.
>
>    1. The wiki is a bit inconsistent on *how to tag* this.
>       1. Key:listed_status
>       <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:listed_status#England>
>       suggests I should tag it <listed_status=Scheduled Monument>.
>       2. The table at Key:HE_ref
>       <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:HE_ref> would suggest that
>       may not be the right tag, as <listed_status=*> is only given for listed
>       buildings - a different legal category.
>       3. I've found plenty of the former in the map, so I'm assuming
>       that's correct and the table at HE_ref needs amplifying
>
>       2. I've also got a puzzle about *how to give the ref. number*.
>       1. Key:listed_status
>       <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:listed_status#England> invites
>       me to use <HE_ref=*>.
>       2. Key:heritage
>       <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:heritage#England> invites
>       me to use <ref:he=*>
>
>       I've tried using overpass-turbo to get relative frequencies of
>       those two tags. I get the following (for most but not all of England, so
>       ymmv: north of ~Barnard Castle not in my bounding box, but that wasn't a
>       political decision...).
>
>       I can't interpret it fully, but it looks like ref:he may be worth
>       deleting from the wiki as obsolete?
>
>       *HE_ref=**
>       Loaded – nodes: 46397, ways: 5541, relations: 124
>       Displayed – pois: 591, lines: 634, polygons: 4770
>
>       *ref:he=**
>       Loaded – nodes: 2274, ways: 176, relations: 1
>       Displayed – pois: 31, lines: 10, polygons: 166
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Edward / eteb3
>
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