[Talk-GB] Buildings and building parts [from: Listed buildings info licence]

Thu Jul 22 19:44:53 UTC 2021

Done. Thanks.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 17:54, Ken Kilfedder <spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk>
wrote:

> I think it would be one building.  Even if the parts were built hundreds
> of years apart.   I suppose one definitive view is - does it have one
> address or a single UPRN?
>
> ---
> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
> spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk
>
>
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021, at 4:48 PM, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> Hi Ken
>
> No apologies needed there: wiki page *Relation:building *was a new one
> for me: that and your email has helped me better understand
> *Key:building:part*, which I've never really got. (I may try and re-work*
> Key:building:part* to make it clearer what you've explained: there has to
> be a 'master building' as well as the parts - the parts don't make the
> whole! Unless someone's corrected it since, that's why my edit shows three
> mosques hard up against each other, not one in three parts as it should be.)
>
> Can you help with 'closed way'? Is that a perfect synonym of the 'area'
> I'm familiar with in iD? Or would a roundabout (a snake eating its tail)
> also qualify?
>
> One thing I'm still not sure about is whether to call all these parts "one
> building" or not. Perhaps I'm just playing semantics, but I hesitate to say
> it's one building, given how very nearly separate the 1970s and listed
> parts are:
>
> https://s3.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/lbimg/101/059/941/101059941-91223-800.jpg
>
> On the other hand it does *behave* as one building.
>
> Any views?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edward
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 10:47, Ken Kilfedder <spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> Have you read up on building:part?  Basically, you create a separate
> closed way for each element of the building, but mark it
> building:part=whatever instead of building=whatever.   The parts can be
> tagged with their individual attributes-  like height or roof shape or
> material.
>
> Then you create a building=whatever that encloses all the parts and has
> the common tags - likely the address.  (The JOSM shrinkwrap plugin is great
> for this.).  For extra credit, you can put all the parts into a relation.
>
> Details here
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building:part
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:building
>
> Appolgies if you've already thought of this.
>
> ---
> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
> spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021, at 10:34 PM, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> Thanks both.
>
> I didn't realise that was your site, Mark. Just the grey data is plenty -
> thank you. But the wikidata may have taken care of that anyway.
>
> Any suggestions on how to deal with the multiple building parts? (best pic
> is at the bottom here
> <https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1059941>)
>
> I could call the mid-19C bit and the 1970s bit one building altogether I
> suppose, plus amenity=place of worship - the functional reality.
>
> But looking at the site it feels like splitting hairs to call it one
> building, rather than two with a bridge between - especially given one is
> listed and one (most definitely, one hopes) is not.
>
> Case for a relation, maybe? Or make it two buildings and have contiguous
> polygon "=place of worship" traced around the perimeter?
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 at 15:47, Jez Nicholson <jez.nicholson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I just linked it to its Wikidata record. Wikidata has all (not sure from
> when) the listed buildings, and could aid with additional linked data.
>
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 3:40 PM Mark Goodge <mark at good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 21/07/2021 14:55, Edward Bainton wrote:
> > I like the full name and I like the GB namespace.
> >
> > May I fork the thread and ask about listed buildings generally?
> >
> > There's a useful website that claims its info on listed stuff comes from
> > the Open Government licence.
> > https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/site/about
> > <https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/site/about>
> >
> > I see the wiki says OGL needs reviewing case-by-case.
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Government_Licence
> > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Government_Licence>
> >
> > Any views on whether it's safe to include data from that site (or from
> > the source Crown Copyright sites) in the map?
>
> The Historic England downloadable data is OGL:
>
>
> https://historicengland.org.uk/terms/website-terms-conditions/data-downloads/
>
> There's the usual disclaimer that if any part of the data is sourced
> from OS, then OS may also assert rights over it. But I think that's just
> backside covering by HE; there doesn't seem to be anything in the data
> that is likely to fall foul of OS rights.
>
> If you actually download the data itself, then the zip file comes with a
> copy of the OGL and a PDF which essentially repeats the page cited above.
>
> > Eg, there are some tags I'd like to include on Ivor House in Taunton.
> >
> https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101059941-ivor-house-taunton-deane-taunton-manor-and-wilton-ward
>
> What information on there are you specifically interested in? If it
> helps, the data in the grey box is all explicitly OGL - the entry
> details are directly from the bulk downloads (as above), and the
> location data is inferred from ONS and OS open data products as well as
> the Historic Counties Trust. Mapcodes and Pluscodes use the standard
> open source algorithms as per their respective creators.
>
> It has just occurred to me that the credits page doesn't mention these
> additional sources (because, when I originally put the site together, I
> wasn't using them). I do need to update that!
>
> At some point, when I have sufficient circular tuits, I also want to
> cross-reference the Historic England GIS downloads with the ONS and OS
> Open UPRN datasets, to see if I can identify the correct UPRN for each
> entry.
>
> Mark
>
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