[Talk-GB] Edits being made by a National Trust GIS team member

Tue Feb 14 18:37:50 UTC 2023

My main problem with edits in Co Down is the use of a standard text instead of a proper edit explanation.

All edits have been made as part of an organised editing activity agreed with OSM board members,
 and in consultation with National Trust rangers. For more info please see: Organised Editing/Activities/National Trust Paths - OpenStreetMap Wiki'

Eg. Way: 1119593635 | OpenStreetMap<https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1119593635#map=17/54.26787/-5.83276>

A number of significant errors have been introduced. My understanding is than OSM is meant to be collaborative and progressive (in the sense that improvements are always possible).

This text almost reads to me as "this is NT property and our official classification of what is on it".  As a keen NT volunteer myself I hope that the Trust editors can be educated to work constructively with other OSM contributors.

Charlie

________________________________
From: SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com>
Sent: 13 February 2023 14:50
To: Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com>
Cc: Talk-GB <Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Edits being made by a National Trust GIS team member

I think others have said this, but my understanding is that typical NT edits will be made by local rangers and possibly volunteers,
perhaps with some support from the GIS team. The whole point of the project is that the NT does not have a digital database of
all the paths, tracks and roads on or crossing their estate.

This was certainly the pre-covid intention described in talks at OSM-UK's AGM and
at SotM-19 in Heidelberg. NT staff put a lot of work together with OSM-UK in developing tagging guidelines which met their needs
and respected current OSM usage. Some of the things found in initial work were very interesting: footpaths misaligned on the
definitive map, but accurate on OSM was one that stood out. Other issues were PRoW which traverse ground of high conservation value
(e.g., nesting moorland birds, delicate vegetation) and how to map these validly and at the same time encourage use of alternatives with
lower impact.

John Stanworth and I attended a workshop for NT rangers & volunteers at Clumber Park in November 2019. The workshop was led
by members of the GIS team. We did a bit of advocacy for mapping stiles etc. (with a particular focus on disabled access) and John
showed how he used GoMap for mapping footpaths. Obviously, Covid has severely disrupted these original plans, both in time
and the severe financial constraints imposed by a lack of income at many properties over the past 3 years.

Recent NT edits at Clumber Park are clearly by someone with a great deal of detailed knowledge of the estate.. Certainly better than mine,
which was partially informed by tramping around Clumber looking for fungi along with one of the then wardens. Clumber also includes at least one
public road (Lime Tree Avenue), but others which are not, although they may at first glance appear so (e.g., Clumber Lane).

Jerry

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 at 19:19, Dave F via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>> wrote:

Question to all: Are there other GIS members of the NT contributing to OSM?

On 12/02/2023 17:21, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> I for one and extremely proud to have an organisation on the level of
> the National Trust using OSM. It is a huge stamp of approval for our
> project

Great, I suppose, but unsure how that improves the quality of the OSM
database.

> over other *ahem* national mapping providers.

Irrelevant to the problem.

>
> They engaged here a number of times, talked with OSMUK,

How? Where? It doesn't appears to have borne fruit.

> and presented at State of the Map. COVID lockdown slowed momentum but
> now they are reinvigorated.

Again, irrelevant.

>
> Their rangers are being introduced to mapping through some shared
> guidelines, but, like all individuals, they will occasionally make
> mistakes or even not map as you would.

If it were an "individual occasionally making mistakes" I wouldn't have
posted.

The NT are meant to be a *professional* organisation. A *GIS* team
member should have at least the /basic/ comprehension of cartography. I
can't speak for all of the NT employee's contributions, but the
changeset I mentioned has gone beyond the realms of newbie accidental
changes into concerted, deliberate changes - PROWs were knowingly removed.

> They've looked at path mapping in detail and will take on board any
> comments and adjust accordingly.

How do you know that? Has someone from the NT GIS team been in contact
with you, or are you a GIS team member?

>
> As you all know, there is never a perfect set of OSM tags and the
> world gets messier the closer you look at it.

Again the amendments go beyond that.

---------

I want to spend my OSM time contributing improvements to the OSM
database, not chasing up contributors who really should know better.

DaveF

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