[Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID) conflation
Robert Skedgell
rob at hubris.org.uk
Fri Jan 6 13:15:18 UTC 2023
I've added an issue to the git repository about conflated nodes being
attached to buildings. Apart from wall-mounted cycle parking, I can't
thing of any other circumstances in which this would be correct.
https://github.com/cyclestreets/tflcid-conversion/issues/48
On 06/01/2023 10:40, Ken Kilfedder wrote:
> For completeness - I commented on this cs too, but have no response as yet.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130428687
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130428687>
>
> ---
> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
> <https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain>
> spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk <mailto:spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk>
>
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2023, at 10:30 AM, Steven Hirschorn wrote:
>> Here's my changeset comment, along with an explanation of the
>> circumstances that may have contributed (I realigned roads and
>> buildings with the Cadastral layer a few days earlier and wonder if
>> the CID import is working on cached data?)
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130291657
>> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130291657>
>>
>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 10:25, Steven Hirschorn
>> <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com <mailto:steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I've also commented on a changeset that merged speedhumps into
>> building outlines and introduced kinks in roads. See this one, for
>> example:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130253893#map=15/51.4972/-0.2896 <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130253893#map=15/51.4972/-0.2896>
>> (I actually put the comment on a different nearby TfL CID
>> changeset accidentally, but then linked to this one in a comment)
>>
>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 10:11, Ken Kilfedder
>> <spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk <mailto:spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Could I please appeal for the TFL Cycle Infrastructure edits
>> to be paused or halted? There have been some problems in the
>> Beckon / Plaistow area, with duplicated or misplaced speed
>> bumps. I've fixed a few by hand, but it would be best if
>> those responsible had another look at their process.
>>
>> See this node for example -
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10282561565
>> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10282561565> . The
>> streets in the area are now all very zig-zagged, and this is
>> incorrect.
>>
>> Zoom in here to see the general pattern -
>> https://osmcha.org/changesets/130428777/
>> <https://osmcha.org/changesets/130428777/>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
>> <https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain>
>> spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk <mailto:spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk>
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022, at 5:48 PM, Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB wrote:
>> > Steven - sorry!
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 5:43 PM
>> > To: Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com
>> <mailto:steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>>
>> > Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database
>> (CID) conflation
>> >
>> > Hi Stephen - Thank you for the encouragement and input
>> >
>> > Very much take your point about the size of the humps
>> changeset needing
>> > to be manageable. It feels like there's a balance we need to
>> find with
>> > the size of each changeset vs the number assets we're aiming
>> to bring
>> > in - around 26k humps. The position we reached was to
>> restrict each
>> > changeset to a max of 350 and kept in a fairly tightly
>> constrained
>> > zone. It sounds like reducing this max size is advisable.
>> >
>> > You'll now see that the humps changeset has been reverted.
>> Another user
>> > (BCNorwich - thank you!) pointed out our method had caused
>> duplication
>> > in instances where we have attempted to revise tags on
>> existing assets,
>> > so we've reverted this changeset entirely to avoid disruption.
>> >
>> > We'll regroup quickly to revise this method and post again
>> to here and
>> > the Wiki tomorrow.
>> >
>> > Many thanks,
>> > Aidan
>> >
>> > From: Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com
>> <mailto:steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 10:59 PM
>> > To: Aidan Mcinerney <Aidan.Mcinerney at ghd.com
>> <mailto:Aidan.Mcinerney at ghd.com>>
>> > Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database
>> (CID) conflation
>> >
>> >
>> > You don't often get email from steven.hirschorn at gmail.com
>> <mailto:steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>. Learn why
>> > this is important
>> >
>> > Hi Aidan,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your efforts, I think it'll be a great addition.
>> I've looked
>> > at a sample of the bike parking and haven't found any issues
>> - neither
>> > false positives or inaccurate positions. I didn't look for
>> any modified
>> > existing nodes. I've noticed that it isn't exhaustive (the
>> first few
>> > nodes in the changeset were of Golden Square but there are some
>> > post_hoops missing), but doesn't claim to be.
>> >
>> > With the traffic calming measures, I found an example of
>> cushions
>> > listed as a hump - I don't know if that's a problem in the
>> original
>> > source data, or maybe it's changed since the survey or since
>> the aerial
>> > view on Bing was recorded? I still feel like the distinction
>> isn't that
>> > important and that it's useful to know that there's some
>> kind of
>> > traffic calming there even if the type is incorrect.
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fnode%2F10242246942&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XBLqHNeM9ODbIbroFx947%2BOi%2FyYzZmY6pzH2XOWCzKc%3D&reserved=0 <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fnode%2F10242246942&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XBLqHNeM9ODbIbroFx947%2BOi%2FyYzZmY6pzH2XOWCzKc%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > I'm finding the bigger changeset difficult to analyse as
>> JOSM doesn't
>> > make it obvious what has changed, and it's too big to open
>> in osmcha
>> > (and there's 18 pages of updates to look at via the
>> openstreetmap.org <http://openstreetmap.org>
>> > representation!
>> >
>> > Steven
>> >
>> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2022 at 12:41, Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB
>> > <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > As discussed, we have now imported two example changesets
>> for review
>> >
>> > - 44 cycle parking assets from TfL CID inside London ward(s)
>> St.
>> > James's,West End #tflcid
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780786&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E23%2Frw4vKSg0z7FjAQPf2jLELFrnKP62tuxw%2BVn0I80%3D&reserved=0 <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780786&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E23%2Frw4vKSg0z7FjAQPf2jLELFrnKP62tuxw%2BVn0I80%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > - 350 traffic calming assets (humps/cushions) of TfL CID
>> within London
>> > borough Barking and Dagenham #tflcid
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780689%23map%3D12%2F51.5530%2F0.1279&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bBw1oGo312cOGlUG%2FpJ49awq5v6HcfgPEoWuE%2BG%2BrLM%3D&reserved=0 <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780689%23map%3D12%2F51.5530%2F0.1279&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bBw1oGo312cOGlUG%2FpJ49awq5v6HcfgPEoWuE%2BG%2BrLM%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > This is aligned to the method proposed, but we would be
>> grateful if you
>> > are able to advise if there is anything unexpected. All
>> being well, we
>> > would look to add a few more changesets for these two assets
>> in 7 days.
>> >
>> > Many thanks,
>> >
>> > Aidan, Lu, Ed
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
>> > Date: Tuesday, 15 November 2022 at 11:03
>> > To: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
>> > Subject: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID)
>> conflation
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > Following very helpful feedback earlier in the year, we are
>> now looking
>> > to recommence efforts to complete the migration of the TfL
>> CID to OSM
>> >
>> > In the intervening months, we have been assisted by
>> CycleStreets in
>> > closing out identified issues with the conversion scripts -
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcyclestreets%2Ftflcid-conversion%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y4BYlkXVfxV1zna7K3CvFzJWrsi8DqCfrIFJJwRmgag%3D&reserved=0 <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcyclestreets%2Ftflcid-conversion%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y4BYlkXVfxV1zna7K3CvFzJWrsi8DqCfrIFJJwRmgag%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > We have reviewed and modified the import process to avoid
>> > editing/importing using out of date info.
>> > The details of this modification for two initial assets
>> (parking and
>> > speed bumps) are outlined here -
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FTfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database%23Modification_to_Process_%2528November_2022%2529&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mtz9dIOx7VpYm8lnxim3Xg%2F6BoL%2BHNi3TVlXLfK1b%2Bk%3D&reserved=0 <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FTfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database%23Modification_to_Process_%2528November_2022%2529&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mtz9dIOx7VpYm8lnxim3Xg%2F6BoL%2BHNi3TVlXLfK1b%2Bk%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > Hopefuly this is all clear – but please ask questions if
>> not. Should
>> > the community consensus be to proceed with this approach, we
>> propose
>> > importing both assets for a single ward next week, allow
>> time (a week?)
>> > for review, before ramping up to a few more wards the
>> following week.
>> > We’re happy to be guided by the pace that community members
>> feel
>> > appropriate as we go.
>> >
>> > We’re very grateful to receive your questions and comments!
>> >
>> > Lu (GHD), Ed (Sweco) and Aidan (GHD)
>> >
>> >
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>> Gutteridge
>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited
>> (05221559);
>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited
>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited
>> (02585136);
>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and
>> Livingston Gunn
>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their
>> registered offices
>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane,
>> Ince,
>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are
>> registered in
>> > England and Wales.
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>> > _____________________
>> > This email is issued by a GHD group company. GHD is a
>> trading name of
>> > the Gutteridge Haskins & Davey group of companies, which
>> includes the
>> > following companies (with their respective company numbers):
>> Gutteridge
>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited
>> (05221559);
>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited
>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited
>> (02585136);
>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and
>> Livingston Gunn
>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their
>> registered offices
>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane,
>> Ince,
>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are
>> registered in
>> > England and Wales.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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