[Talk-GB] Static caravan or chalet? Possible language issue?

[James Derrick]

Hi,

On 24/02/2024 16:58, Philip Barnes wrote:
> One of my big bugbears of using OSM data to plan holidays is that a lot
> of camp sites are mistagged as caravan sites, which is not helpful to a
> camper.

After some research, the high-level tagging of tourism=caravan_site does 
seem to be used across multiple site types from huge static_caravan 
sites to CC/ C&CC "CL's".

> A bit of light relief is my overpass query for finding campsites with a
> kilometre of a pub. The really important stuff.
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1HMb

Can I suggest the query needs maintenance for both the less specific 
leisure tagging that seems common, and very specific usage tagging which 
might resolve the type issue? Two versions might be useful to catch the 
less specific tag usage.

tourism=camp_site, caravan_site (+ tents=yes), holiday_park (+ tents=yes)

(as opposed to caravans=yes, motorhome_stopover=yes, static_caravans=yes)


> A problem which I think goes back to overuse of aerial imagery, over
> survey. Finding tents on aerial imagery, even on campsites I am
> familiar with is not easy.

My limited sample of known camp sites shows a mix of caravans and grassy 
areas - I bet many tents pitch and go in a single night so are less 
likely to be captured in good flying lighting (e.g. Beadnell Bay). 
Larger campsites might also be screened from wind by trees making.


> Holiday park is a interesting tag, we have certainly camped at these
> places, having a heated swimming pool is certainly an attraction. If
> you are lucky you may even get real ale in the bar.

Nitro-keg may be more prevalent from the large size of the facilities, 
but that aside, I've updated several of the NE Coast large sites I know 
and have surveyed in the past to holiday_park (with specific usage tags) 
as they are so large (200-1100 statics).

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/905745175/    Haggerston Castle - 
Haven is unusual in that they accept tourers
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100719866/    Seahouses #1 - 
static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100719901/    Seahouses #2 - 
static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/421066891/    Beadnell Hall - 
static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/741613921/    Beadnell Links - 
static_caravanhttps://www.openstreetmap.org/way/631083680/    Beadnell 
Bay - static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/314943273/    Birling Carrs Static 
Caravan Park - static_caravan although less formal
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114805306/    Amble Links - static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/145175150/    Silver Carrs - seems to 
have been bought and gone completely static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100453704/    Cresswell Towers - 
Parkdean, all static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100453729/    Golden Sands - locally 
owned, static_caravankeeps expanding
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/88034881/    Church Point - Parkdean, 
all static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/90149817/    Sandy Bay - Parkdean, all 
static_caravan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/102259021/    Whitley Bay - Parkdean, 
all static_caravan

It turns out there's more sites on the coast up here than you'd think - 
and I sail and cycle past them regularly. Hope this doesn't count as a 
mass edit!

Most are static_caravan ONLY so tourism=caravan_site must have been 
confusing especially without caravans=no permanent_camping=only.
This likely explains the armchair edits from European mappers - also 
planning holidays.


> Generally I feel the right tag for touring is tourism=camp_site.
> Caravan site makes sense for static caravans, the term is obvious in
> British English, but possibly confusing to non-native speakers.

Agree - camp_site seems more neutral across caravans=yes; 
motorhome_stopover=yes; tents=yes

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/421066870/    Beadnell Bay - imagery 
shows vans, but no tents (but seen on ground survey)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/102255231/    Old Hartley - classic CC 
site for vans+motorhomes, but no tents

Interestingly, the CC website also seems to show "Pods" - guessing at 
"glamping" sheds. These appeared locally at a farm looking like a Hobbit 
village with hexagonal sheds and log burners (next to the 1950's cow byre).

The "not caravan sites" edits I've seen were indeed made by non-native 
English speakers.


> Some parts of the wiki are a bit strange, for example until I fixed it
> the camp site page stated the electric hookups were for caravans. I
> have never been refused an electric hookup on a site which had them on
> grass pitches.

Could be an extrapitch fee, or metered, but friends use electric fan 
heaters regardless of van/tent/trailer tent. This was especially the 
case with the recent Calor Gas fiasco with the withdrawal of several 
popular cylinder types. How would you charge the kids phones otherwise? :-)

Thanks and Happy Mapping,


James
-- 
James Derrick
     lists at jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
     I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
     https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick
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