[OSM-talk-ie] Can Townlands be split for Civil parishes and barony boundries?

[Brian Hollinshead]

Lugaphuill:
The two townlands in separate Civil Parishes were combined into one by the
Boundary Surveyor.
A study of the valuation books this morning shows them as separate in 1856,
1883, 1914 and 1922 but combined in 1935.

A closer inspection of the annotations in the books show the effective date
was 1927.


I strongly believe that townlands which enjoyed a separate but adjoining
existence for seventy years should be shown on OSM as such as there are a
wealth of records referring to each part. Similarly where we find townlands
which have been absorbed into city or town limits, that they should also be
added to OSM for record purposes.

I have therefore drawn the two original parts into OSM as Lugaphuill (Drum)
and Lugaphuill (Ballyhean) AND left the combined one there until those who
decide, decide which is preferable. I have added a note to all three as
below

"Lugaphuill (Drum) and Lugaphuill (Ballyhean) combined by Boundary Surveyor
in 1927, as per Valuation Office books."

On 12 December 2016 at 16:09, Cormac O Murchú <com at iol.com> wrote:

> (Apologies for formatting in first message so resent)
>
> We are asking the wrong question of Lugaphuill in a way.
>
> There were two townlands named Lugaphuill in 2 separate civil parishes as
> late as 1911.
>
> 1901 Index.
>
> map  Townland name Area  acres  roods  perches County Barony Parish County
> district / Superintendent Registrar’s District District Electoral Division
> (DED) DED number
> [89] Lugaphuill 215 2 4 Mayo Carra Drum Castlebar Breaghwy 6
> [89][Lugaphuill 249 2 25 Mayo Carra Ballyhean Castlebar Breaghwy 63
>
> As both were then and are now in Breaghwy ED the REAL question is WERE they
> LATER combined intone  townland by a Boundary Order and the answer
> seemingly
> is perhaps yes.. They were separate townlands in 1901 or so.  The problem
> is
> that nobody seems to know where the boundary orders are I asked in the
> Valuation office ( the chief valuer is the chief boundary surveyor who
> makes
> boundary orders in Ireland) and a whole load of boundary orders were made
> c.
> 1898 to 1914 or so.
>
> 1911 census
>
> We can see that separate enumeration forms exist in for FOR Drum
>
> 1. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002982064/ ( Drum)
> (dwellngs 21)
>
> And separately Ballyhean
>
> 2. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002981321/ (Ballyhean)
> (dwellings 7)
>
> So not combined there either or there would be only one form ( 1 per
> townland)
>
> In the Townlands  supplement to the 1911 census
>
> This >
>
> http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=
> Browse/Census%20(by%20g
> eography)/Ireland/1911&active=yes&mno=460&tocstate=
> expandnew&tocseq=200&disp
> lay=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=first-nonblank
>
> There is no mention of Lugaphuill which indicates that a boundary order was
> perhaps made after 1913 IF at all.
>
> http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=
> Browse/Census%20(by%20g
> eography)/Ireland/1911&active=yes&mno=460&tocstate=
> expandnew&display=section
> s&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=11
>
> We do see a lot of modifications where xx Urban ED s are located.
>
> 1901
> map sheet number Townland name Are  acres Area roods Area perches County
> Barony Parish County district / Superintendent Registrar’s District
> District
> Electoral Division (DED) DED number
> [88] Clerhaun 116 2 12 Mayo Murrisk Oughaval Westport Westport Rural 154
>
> Suddenly we see Clerhaun “Part of” Here.
>
> http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=
> Browse/Census%20(by%20g
> eography)/Ireland/1911&active=yes&mno=460&tocstate=
> expandnew&display=section
> s&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=6
>
> 115 acres 3 and 7 The missing 1 acre was evidently nibbled by Westport
> Urban
> ED as a result of a stream being straightened. Between 1839 and 1901 or so
> and made into the ED Boundary with the townland adjustment made afterwards
> post 1901.
>
> https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/murrisk/kilmeena/westport-rural/clerhaun/
>
> So there should also be a 1 acre Clerhaun townland in Westport Urban ED But
> I dunno when/if the 2 x Lugaphuill townlands were combined save that there
> had to be an order making it so and the Valuers office have no public
> record
> of these.
>
> HTH
>
>
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