[Talk-it] Talk-it Digest, Vol 18, Issue 1
graham
graham at theseamans.net
Fri May 2 23:16:23 BST 2008
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> si, pero si puo creare solo per Osmarender.
> Ho scritto questo 16. Aprile a Steve Chilton (di Mapnik), ma non mi ha
> piu risposto, ne sono cambiate le cose. Mi piacerebbe se qualcun altro
> potrebbe richiedere (ricordare), perché sono delle cose importanti.
> Non penso che ci vogliono male, solo che non hanno cose storici da
> loro e quindi non si accorgianno, che mancanno ;-)
>
Pfff.. Stonehenge mi pare che abbia un po di anticipo in relazione a
Romolo e Remo... ;-)
Poi due cose:
1. Hai molta fretta in relazione a un progetto di volontari! (anche se
anch'io penso che si avrebbe dovuto sistemare la mancanza di piazze da
un po..)
2. (piu importante): La maniera che osm ha sempre funzionato e' che la
gente mette quello che vuole nel database; poi gli autori dei
renderizzatori se ne accorgono, e viene renderizzato. Di questa maniera
vuole dire che c'e' un consenso fra i mappatori, non solo una persona
che chiede qualcosa chi chissa se funzionera bene nella practica.
In questo caso, a me non mi piace molto historical=archeological_site, e
troppo vago. Romano, greco o italico? Restaurato o originale? Sotto
terra o visibile? Si paga per entrare o no?
A me piacerebbe vedere un mappa specializzata per fini
archeologici/historici, e per questo bisognerebbe piu dettaglio (che puo
stare nello stesso db senza necessariamente essere renderizzato da tutti
i renderizzatori). Credo che c'e' stato un po di discussione dei
possibilita fra acheologici inglesi.
Graham
Scusate la mia solita distruzione della lingua italiana...
> SECONDO MAIL (16.04.2008):
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> thank you for your reply. I'm not sure if there has to be a big change
> for squares, as they should render the same as landuse, but with the same colour
> as the streettype they are. Outlines from squares represent the outer
> border of the square unlike the streets, that are mapped with the
> center of the street beeing represented with a line. What I try to
> point out is, that there should NOT be drawn a street and the the
> center filled, but instead it should be drawn a polygon in the colour
> of the street (and this should be with a priority, that it is drawn
> under possible streets (because sqares are often pedestrian but
> crossed by streets, that otherwise would not be visible).
>
> I agree, that POI that can be turned on individually would be a great
> feature in the future, but I'm little bit sad, that you won't put many
> of the features (which indeed are all features that passed voting and
> therefore can be considered as approved by the community), that are in
> the current mapfeature list. I again agree, that on smaller zoomlevels
> only the most important features should be present, but on higher
> levels (before all the 2 highest levels) there should in my opinion be
> as many features as possible, as the map otherwise will be somehow
> empty. These very high zoomlevels, intended to give a detailed view of
> the area, are enriched by these features.
>
> The following of the proposed features are definitely also hitting the
> navigate-to-it-criteria, you mentioned:
>
> very important for Rome:
> historic:
> -monument
> -ruins
> -archaeological_site
>
> man_made:
> -lighthouse
> -tower
>
> amenity:
> -theatre
> -cinema
> -university
> -arts-centre
> - fountain
> - restaurant (if pubs are in, they should as well, maybe you can also
> use the cuisine-tag if available for additional naming, like: xyz,
> Pizza; or Hang Zhou, Chinese)
>
> railway:
> -subway_entrance
>
> Please don't forget that mapnik is kind of THE original OSM-Map, as it
> is standard on the OSM Page and many people, that have a first look on
> OSM look on this map. From the German Mailing List as well as the
> Italian one, I know that the rendered maps, Mapnik-OSM on the first
> place, are for many people the main reason to contribute and put /
> correct data. Putting a lot of features on the high zoom-levels can
> motivate people, and is also good publicity, as you can see, how many
> entries there are already in the database.
>
> That's why I still think, that the following features should be
> rendered as well (some of them as telephones and drinking water maybe
> just in the highest zoomlevel, as otherwise there would really be some
> cluttering):
>
> -pharmacy
> -drinking_water (there is a icon here, which is according to this page
> PD: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:Proposed_features/Potable_Water:
> http://www.blm.gov/nstc/mapstandards/downloads/inter.pdf number 37)
> -telephone
> -fuel
>
> shop:
> -bicycle
> -book (is still a proposed feature, unlike all the others mentioned above)
>
> the mentioned issue with shops, that they tend to change a lot, is
> partly true, partly also not. There are many traditional, historic
> shops, some of them existing for hundreds of years (this applies even
> to some book shops). On the other hand: if they were rendered, people
> could delete / modify them, when necessary, otherwise this data will
> remain in the database, mostly unused and invisible, and therefore
> much more likely will become outdated and false. I believe in the
> wiki-quality of our map, that leads faster to corrections and updates
> as any commercial solution.
>
> I would be glad to hear from you again,
>
> cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> RISPOSTA DI STEVE 13.04.2008
>
> 2008/4/13, Steve Chilton <S.L.Chilton at mdx.ac.uk>:
> - Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>> Martin
>>
>> Sorry for late response, I have been away on a mapping party this weekend.
>> I do indeed "care for" the mapnik rendering on the slippy map, though I am not the only one, but perhaps the most frequent.
>> I agree with you on the squares issue. I have tried to sort it, but it is a bit complicated.
>> Mapnik sees things as either lines or polygons. I think square is unique in that it is the only highway= tag that can be a polygon.
>> Someone needs to make changes to the osm2pgsql script to get the data from db to pgsql for use by the style sheet.
>> It is on someone's "todo" list and will hopefully be sorted soon. Then I will sort the rendering, once I cab pick up the polygons.
>> You are not correct in saying the things listed were once in the maps.
>> They may have been (or still are in fact) in the osmarender layer but have never been in the mapnik layer.
>> I personally have a bit a thing about putting loads of points of interest symbols on the map map, and have held back from rendering many of these because of that. I am hoping that a points of interest (switchable - ie on/off) will be done sometime.
>> I tend to use a rule of thumb - would you navigate by it. So yes to pub and church, no to types of shops (which also change frequently).
>> I will have a look at the bike-paths issue. Could you email me a URL of where this issue arises please?
>> I can't really comment on realtions as I only just getting to grips with their intricacies myself.
>>
>> Cheers
>> STEVE
>>
>>
>>
>
> PRIMA MAIL:
>
>> Subject: Problems in Mapnik
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I'm a big fan of the mapnik render engine, but suffering a bit because
>> of some deficits, still immanent. I was told in the German Mailing
>> List that you are the one caring for Mapnik, and as I couldn't put a
>> Mapnik-Ticket in the trac, I'm trying to contact you via Email.
>>
>> The most serious issue IMHO is the missing squares. Mapnik unlike
>> Osmarender renders highways that are tagged with area=yes just with
>> outlines. As squares are very important for the grafical appearance /
>> for orientation, this should be very nice to have also in Mapnik.
>> This is also a problem for buildings, that share nodes with
>> surrounding areas and by now are cut by overlappings from
>> highway-outlines that should be areas instead.
>>
>> I don't know, but I seem to remember, that most of the features listed
>> down here once have been in the Maps, anyway, at the moment they
>> aren't but would be really nice to have.
>>
>> There are some features missing, that I would love to have in Mapnik,
>> the following amenities:
>> -pharmacy
>> -drinking_water (there is a icon here, which is according to this page
>> PD: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:Proposed_features/Potable_Water:
>> http://www.blm.gov/nstc/mapstandards/downloads/inter.pdf number 37)
>> -telephone
>> -theatre
>> -cinema
>> -university
>> -fuel
>> -arts-centre
>> - fountain
>>
>> and also historic:
>> -monument
>> -ruins
>> -archaeological_site
>>
>> and man_made:
>> -lighthouse
>> -tower
>>
>> railway:
>> -subway_entrance
>>
>> shop:
>> -bicycle
>> -book (is still a proposed feature, unlike all the others mentioned above)
>>
>> also I suggest to put bicycle-paths generally above streets in the
>> render, as they are dottet lines and allow to see the streets that lie
>> underneath in cases, where bicycle paths follow the street in a narrow
>> distance. For areas instead, this should not apply, as squares are
>> often represented as highway =pedestrian, area = yes, with highway=
>> <some car accessible street> running over it to show the actual
>> traffic possibilities.
>>
>> Some days before I also experienced a problem with churches, who would
>> on highest zoom level display only the icon whilst one zoomlevel below
>> show also the name, but today, this wasn't there any more, so maybe
>> it's already corrected (but still some churches don't even show their
>> name on any zoom level).
>>
>> of course it would also be great to have relations in a more advanced
>> way, but this will be more work to implement, I guess. (e.g. someone
>> put all river segments in Rome into one relation (41,8014855
>> 12,3865226) with the result, that it doesn't appear on the map any
>> more).
>
> 2008/5/2 Edoardo Marascalchi <edoardo at edoardomarascalchi.it>:
>>
>>> OK, non è che mi dici dove/come/a quale mail inoltrare le richieste x
>> mapnik Osmarender? Ho cercato nei giorni scorsi, ma non sono riuscito a
>> trovare il posto giusto, ne a capire quali sono i criteri di inserimento di
>> nuove regole di renderizzazione.
>>>
>>>
>> La cosa migliore è creare un ticket sul sistema trac:
>> http://trac.openstreetmap.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Edoardo Marascalchi
>> ICT Consultant
>>
>> website: http://www.edoardomarascalchi.it
>> skype: My status <skype:asca_edom?call>
>>
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