[Talk-nz] [EXTERNAL] Re: Turn restrictions rabbithole

Fri Aug 14 11:58:14 UTC 2020

Hi!

I’m using both tools for more than 10 days now, and here’s some feedbacks:

  *   https://restrictions.morbz.de/
     *   the tool has vivid colors and it is not so clean, so it is hard to understand every single what is the problem with the turn restriction.
     *   Also, I’m not sure if it works on some local OSM drop, or it uses live data thru Overpass query. I think it is local OSM drop, since I have fixed some of the turn restrictions, but these are still visible in the app.
     *   Anyway, there are some probably false positives which I’m not able to figure out what is the problem. For example this turn restriction<https://restrictions.morbz.de/#19/-41.28779/174.77909> is marked as Warning, but everything seems to be clear.
  *   https://ahorn.lima-city.de/tr/
     *   I have found this tool more handy. It has a really handy b&w background so you can easily recognize all colored turn restrictions. Interface helps you to understand all Warnings and Errors easily.
     *   Just very few of Warnings were false positives (such as deviation is not too high/large to recognize as No U turn – app suggesting to apply No Right turn).
     *   Great thing is that you can disable Turn restrictions without issues. It makes everything truly nice and clean.
     *   There are three negative sides:
        *   First, which bothers me a lot, is that zoom level needs to be 14 or higher. I have 2K resolution and I have found it really frustrating when you have to wait to load Overpass each time for a “small” area. Also I do not know if I have missed some of the turn restrictions with issues, since maybe I haven’t loaded some regions. It is a really great feature to work on live data, but it would be really nice to have a possibility to see all issues at once for one country. By my opinion, it would be nice to have at least zoom level 10, if it is hard to implement turn restriction list for whole country.
        *   There’s no possibility to mark these very few as false positives. It would be really neat to see this feature as well.
        *   If there is an orphan turn restriction (‘from’ and ‘to’ members are missing), you will have displayed error, but you won’t have a representation on the map. You have manually download all type=restriction for given area and to manually remove it from JOSM.
[cid:image001.png at 01D67242.F20E4DC0]

I hope that I have closed all turn restrictions that had some kind of issues across New Zealand, but (as I said) maybe I have intentionally missed some region. I hope provided feedback can be useful for everyone.

Thanks,
Nemanja

From: Kiel Hurley <kielhurley at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:15 AM
To: Eliot Blennerhassett <eliot at blennerhassett.gen.nz>
Cc: talk-nz at openstreetmap.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Talk-nz] Turn restrictions rabbithole

If you do remove any turn restrictions using iD, please use the Turn Restrictions widget rather than deleting the turn restriction relation from the node.
I've noticed if the relation is deleted from the node, the relation still exists but without a "via", which causes an error (but doesn't appear to be shown as one in iD).

JOSM is able to detect them as errors, and from there the no-longer-needed relations can be deleted.

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 10:38, Eliot Blennerhassett <eliot at blennerhassett.gen.nz<mailto:eliot at blennerhassett.gen.nz>> wrote:
Now I've seen these restrictions visualizers...

https://ahorn.lima-city.de/tr/?zoom=18&lat=-43.553894&lon=172.635211&layer=Grayscale&overlays=TTT<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fahorn.lima-city.de%2Ftr%2F%3Fzoom%3D18%26lat%3D-43.553894%26lon%3D172.635211%26layer%3DGrayscale%26overlays%3DTTT&data=02%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C39c1fae2aa094db448f308d8392032ee%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637322158681095588&sdata=r%2B%2FfXLxdEzxCO6mQAxr7vgtVBvDoHCE9ogJ4two8rjI%3D&reserved=0>

https://restrictions.morbz.de/#17/-43.55386/172.63474<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frestrictions.morbz.de%2F%2317%2F-43.55386%2F172.63474&data=02%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C39c1fae2aa094db448f308d8392032ee%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637322158681105582&sdata=KwnTvuRT4tuVgR27n0JFJp5BLq4iQE2hCmNPiCYr1aU%3D&reserved=0>

I'm seeing a huge proliferation of labelling every way of a junction
with what I call a "Self No U-turn" i.e. the from and to members are the
same segment.

See for example this area:

https://ahorn.lima-city.de/tr/?zoom=18&lat=-43.553894&lon=172.635211&layer=Grayscale&overlays=TTT<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fahorn.lima-city.de%2Ftr%2F%3Fzoom%3D18%26lat%3D-43.553894%26lon%3D172.635211%26layer%3DGrayscale%26overlays%3DTTT&data=02%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C39c1fae2aa094db448f308d8392032ee%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637322158681105582&sdata=Aptw9JrFiN2dmGEvBrDN9M09W%2FXqaxSaCeywIjvaio4%3D&reserved=0>

https://restrictions.morbz.de/#17/-43.55386/172.63474<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frestrictions.morbz.de%2F%2317%2F-43.55386%2F172.63474&data=02%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C39c1fae2aa094db448f308d8392032ee%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637322158681115576&sdata=OXtdcLKogqhaUTrliLXIbQtmjYXidgXOYm4trRjGfvI%3D&reserved=0>

If you look at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction#Tags<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FRelation%3Arestriction%23Tags&data=02%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C39c1fae2aa094db448f308d8392032ee%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637322158681115576&sdata=chmA1X7Uprr24MB0B5iZTYKcKnJ%2FntFimKc8LFliCOs%3D&reserved=0>, it says
"*to add a no_u_turn restriction relation seems only useful if
from-member and to-member are different way objects"

So I think all these no-U that I'm seeing are useless, and in some cases
actually erroneous e.g. when the T junction is between a driveway and a
road it is not prohibited to do a U turn on the road.  And they make it
harder to review actual turn restrictions.

I've deleted a bunch, but I'm interested if anyone else has any opinion
on this.

No-U-turn where the From and To members are different ways is of course
still valid e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9027919<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F9027919&data=02%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C39c1fae2aa094db448f308d8392032ee%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637322158681125570&sdata=W9FzMQDl9RxXnDetGcHDrV3Xwa35N9i9D%2BMWZGmoAww%3D&reserved=0>
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5391722<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F5391722&data=02%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C39c1fae2aa094db448f308d8392032ee%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637322158681125570&sdata=ByTOqDonY%2BHnIUn6wN5bJOxqXXCuUD%2FGPhf4%2BlpV8KI%3D&reserved=0>

--
Eliot

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