[talk-ph] A look at Wikimapia Beta (and advocating for OSM)

maning sambale emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com
Tue Dec 16 10:30:46 GMT 2008

Some of my personal insights:

1. Google will only ask you to close down if there is threat to their
business.  Wikimapia doesn't seem to be:


"F. All User Submissions of all users and all WikiMapia data are
available through WikiMapia Website, WikiMapia API and other current
or future WikiMapia services for  non-commercial purposes only:
personal or educational." <------------------- that's the punchline.

2. But I'm quite sure Google is not complacent with violations in
their terms of use:

3. Competition is good.  It's an evolutionary thing.  OSM might not
have the cash Google has, but in case something bad really happens
(highly unlikely I hope) at least I can download all Philippine data
and probably resurrect the project.  The biggest herbivorous highly
specialized dinosaurs were the first to be extinct.  Insects, virus,
bacteria survived. ;)

Digress: Why would you contribute in Mapmaker?  Google strength is
search, local search.  If I'm a businessman wouldn't it be great to
have my establishment appear in google map philippines?

I think a better advocacy for OSM Philippines is to show the cool
stuff we can do (map a whole lot of things, show them how you can use
the data for your cellphones), educate them about the license.  In
time we get the quality (not quantity) of contributors we need.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 4:50 PM,  <sorabsuperstar at web.de> wrote:
> Hi all
> thanks for the links.
> Well, Ed Parsons made it pretty clear in his blog that G-mapmaker is NOT an open project and apparently doesn't want to become one (for obvious reasons?).
> He also said that it will most probably not be possible to share their aerial photos with OSM, like yahoo did.
> However I really wonder why they keep calm on wikimapia's new beta-site!?!?
> Annoying enough,that google's diverging efforts by "baiting" ppl away with their glossy highres aerial photos. (All those ppl ignorant about legal implications will prefer mapmaker over OSM)
> But somehow even more annoying, that wikimapia-beta is diverging by "baiting" ppl with the same glossy footage, while even not allowed to do so. At the end of the day it even doesn't matter whether those two Russians who run wikimapia, Alexandre Koriakine and Evgeniy Saveliev, have good intentions, since their database is completely tainted by googles "co-copyright". So they are even diverging crowd sourcing potential into a black hole.
> We should try to ask google again to open the google maps aerials for creating free licensed derivatives out of it. I mean if they don't see OSM and mapmaker as competitors of any kind, like Ed Parsons claims, then they should not have a problem with supporting OSM wherever they can. Right!?
> We should also appeal to wikimapia to refrain from running their beta project based on google maps, unless google allows it. We should deal with wikimapia-beta either by convincing them that their approach for legal reasons is a road to nowhere, then inviting them to somehow couple up with OSM (they'd need to put the streetmap layers under CC then)
> .... in case these guys just laugh about the legal concerns, we should... I guess the following will be controversial... we should - talaga - try to make google shut them down. This sounds pretty destructive,i know. But for the given reason wikimapia - in it's current setup - is destructive.
> I mean albeit the fact that wikimapia's fate as an open project is totally dependent on the good will of  Alexandre Koriakine and Evgeniy Saveliev, it is also totally dependent on the mercy of google.
> As I said: They are gathering the ppl to lead them into a black hole. We should not just watch it happen, for the sake of all these eager contributers THERE ON WIKIMAPIA, who eventually might kinda loose their hard work.
> I would like to voice out these concerns (and maybe suggested solutions) at OSM global and legal talk lists. And I would like to speak for the Pinoy OSM community.
> So I would like to discuss it here first.
> Cheers
>  Soeren
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: "maning sambale" <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
>> Gesendet: 16.12.08 08:13:33
>> An: sorabsuperstar at web.de
>> CC: talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
>> Betreff: Re: [talk-ph] A look at Wikimapia Beta (and advocating for OSM)
>> Hi,
>> > So who could know if there have been talks? Maning, you have any direct contact to the OSM administration?
>> Ed Parson the geospatial technology chief of Google knows and is aware
>> of the general OSM community's sentiments on G's MapMaker
>> http://www.edparsons.com/2008/06/what-map-maker-is-is-not/
>> I am not aware of any talks privately within OSM's admin.
>> From Ed Parson's tone, I am skeptical wether they will share data
>> (imagery or data or both).  The resulting map tiles can be accessed
>> for free but not the underlying source data.
>> However, Eugene talked to the Google people during the local Google
>> Devfest and revealed some interesting plans:
>> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com/posts/google_devfest_manila_2008
>> > However this is something we cannot do in the Philippines. This needs to be taken care of from the top of OSM. I would volunteer to lead talks (did I yet mention that I am a lawyer?:)). However: WHO to talk to in OSM? Anyone a clue about who's in charge of those things? (Is there anyone at all?)
>> I suggest you send your inquiries to the main talk list or the legal
>> talk list of OSM.
>> >aggressively do PR, enlightening the public that anyone who is contributing to wikimapia or google mapmaker is actually working for free for the >pure benefits of certain other ppl (a concept formerly known as slavery?) . Unlike OSM where they work for free for the greater good. :)
>> Yes! Please do, I have to admit this a bit frustrating (did it a lot
>> times).  I guess some people just don't get it (Hey man! Google is
>> there to give us what we need). Or completely ignore the legal nuances
>> (Dude, 95% of software here is pirated so what's the problem with
>> Google Maps?).  Or it's just me.
>> Yes we need PR. But for me, I will most likely welcome and encourage
>> those who signed in and added a few data (at least these people are
>> already interested and invested a couple of time by adding data).
>> Then get on with mapping  and do some cool stuff with the data we
>> made.  ;)
>> --
>> cheers,
>> maning
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
>> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>> ------------------------------------------------------
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"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/

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