[talk-ph] Fwd: Road name suffixes again

[Jherome Miguel]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Road name suffixes again
To: Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com>


I've found a proposal to revise guidelines on road names, this one for
Mexico (content is in Spanish though). We can relate to this, as like us,
the Mexican OSM community is also divided between camps that promote the
use of bare, short names without affixes (regardless of what signs or
official sources say), or full names (including affixes and things).

There have been three proposals by the way (proposal 1 being accepted by a
majority):

- Proposal 1: Use full names, including affixes indicating road type,
articles and prepositions
- Proposal 2: Use the bare name only for most cases (road type in a
separate tag)
- Proposal 3: Use full names, including affixes indicating road type,
articles and prepositions (except the very common affix "Calle", regardless
of it being posted on signs)

We might consider making a proposal on-wiki, following this.

--TagaSanPedroAko

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 8:13 PM Jherome Miguel, <jheromemiguel at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Well, suffixes should be considered vital part of most road names, and
> it's up to the renderer whether to keep it as it is, shorten it, or omit it
> completely. Nevertheless, there are possible exceptions to the full name
> guideline, most notably EDSA. It's time we look for other sources for road
> names as the road signs may not always be reliable all the time (or there
> aren't any official signage at all), and road names tagged in name=* are
> also used for addr:street=* (road names in PH addresses normally use full
> names, except suffixes are abbreviated, as usual).
>
> --TagaSanPedroAko
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 7:33 PM Eugene Alvin Villar, <seav80 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Personally, I prefer omitting and enforcing the removal of the "Street"
>> suffix, which is the default and the most common "type" of road label, when
>> I started mapping in OSM.
>>
>> Admittedly, my reason for doing that is for aesthetic purposes: it looks
>> cleaner and avoids clutter in rendered maps. But yeah this is just another
>> "don't map for the renderer" issue.
>>
>> I have started to question my behavior over the past few years and I can
>> now be convinced that we should switch our practice to adding "Street"
>> instead of omitting it.
>>
>> Note that I haven't addressed the issue regarding street name signs
>> because I think this is a bit irrelevant. As I've said above, "Street" is
>> the default label and I doubt that any Filipino would say that "Maginhawa
>> Street" refers to a totally different road from one named just "Maginhawa".
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 7:42 AM Jherome Miguel, <jheromemiguel at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Since the discussion at https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/98219661,
>>> I think we should review our existing convention on naming streets,
>>> especially those with the "Street" suffix, and and handling of street with
>>> official signs that omit the suffixes. Common OSM practice on street names
>>> is to use full names, but existing PH convention somewhat encourages
>>> dropping of suffixes regardless of what signs say, especially for inner
>>> streets, just like some other road maps in the Philippines (and even
>>> signs) do.
>>>
>>> Some important arguments are:
>>>
>>> - OSM is also a database and not just a mere road map (and complete data
>>> is important). Road maps may use common short forms of full road names for
>>> easy recognition, but OSM is far more than those. Maps that use OSM data
>>> have many choices on how to handle road names: use the full name, use
>>> abbreviations, or just use the bare name. By eliminating it, important info
>>> is lost.
>>> - Using bare road names looks plain weird, especially for addresses
>>> (unless we're one of the countries where omitting affixes on most street
>>> names is the norm in maps, signs, and addresses). Ads, business signs, and
>>> things should also be considered as sources, not just the sign at the
>>> street corner. Official road signs may not be consistent in how the name is
>>> written, and the name posted in business addresses may be far better in
>>> telling the name of the road in question.
>>> - The temptation by some mappers to abbreviate suffixes is not a
>>> sufficient reason to eliminate these info from road names.
>>>
>>> --TagaSanPedroAko
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>> talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>>
>>
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