[Talk-pt] Dados da CAOP e import

Thu Nov 20 11:49:50 UTC 2014

Viva,

A minha opinião sobre a CAOP, que sei não é partilhada por todos nesta
lista, é que deve ser importada de forma automática para o OSM. Talvez
não do modo como o Marcos começou a fazer mas defendo que se deve
desenvolver um método automático que possa ser reutilizado ano após ano
(com eventuais adaptações). Penso que é isso que o Francisco está a
desenvolver.

E será talvez esse o ponto que culminou neste episódio. Sem ter falado
com nenhum dos intervenientes arrisco a dizer que o Marcos ficou
impaciente porque o trabalho de importação está a demorar e resolveu
"atalhar caminho". Por outro lado o Francisco ficou aborrecido porque
viu que o trabalho que tem vindo a desenvolver estava a ser "minado".

Ambos são uma grande mais valia para a comunidade OSM e espero que
ponham isto para trás das costas. Que tal contribuirmos todos para a
discussão técnica da melhor forma de fazer a importação?

Se a solução for a que o Francisco está a desenvolver convém de qualquer
forma que existam outras pessoas que percebam o problema e a solução,
para que a comunidade não fique a depender de uma única pessoa.

Um abraço,
Rúben

On 19-11-2014 00:07, Marcos Oliveira wrote:
> Olá a todos,
>
> Eu queria-vos dar a conhecer que enviei para o Data Working Group
> (DWG) um e-mail sobre esta situação, assim como o pedido para reverter
> tudo o que a minha conta de importação fez desde o dia que a criei.
>
> Coloco abaixo a mensagem que enviei-lhes, na sua integra, para assim
> todos terem o conhecimento do que eu escrevi.
>
> Com toda a estima,
> Marcos Oliveira
>
>     Data Working Group,
>
>     Hello, I am Marcos Oliveira and I'm contacting you to discuss
>     about a current problem that exists in the Portuguese OSM
>     community where I am the sole responsible in question.
>
>     The issue is regarding the alteration and addition of
>     administrative boundaries and natural parks through my alternate
>     account, ViriatoLusitano_import. [1] 
>
>     A user, Francisco, submitted a thread in the Portuguese mailing
>     list [2] stating how I have been disrespecting the work of others
>     by eliminating nodes, ways and relations, namely places and
>     boundaries (administrative and natural parks), claiming that I've
>     been doing outright vandalism. He also claims to have sent you an
>     e-mail about this situation.
>
>     Let me show you my version of the story. I want it to be
>     explicitly known that I'm *not claiming* to be innocent, I admit
>     I've done many things wrong but vandalizing is not one of them.
>
>     Francisco brought forward three main issues that I've caused: 
>
>      1. The deletion of ways and relations that other users have made
>      2. The modification of Portugal/Spain boundary 
>      3. The removal of places, namely hamlets
>
>     Regarding the first point, when I began working on manually
>     importing administrative boundaries back on the 12th of September,
>     I always tried working using the existing elements that were
>     contributed by other people. The problem was that whenever I tried
>     to upload the progress I've done (after successfully validating),
>     there appeared conflicts in the data, sometimes in the hundreds. 
>
>     Since I didn't want to mess and probably ruin different types of
>     data other than administrative boundaries, I opted to first remove
>     the old boundaries where I later carefully imported my own work,
>     without first contacting the Portuguese community about this.
>
>     Just recently I have learned to use the "replace geometry" tool
>     that the /utilsplugin2/ plugin offers to conflate the data; now I
>     can work without ever having to delete a way nor any relations
>     whatsoever.
>
>     Regarding the second point, while I was working near the boundary
>     with Spain I found out that there were places where the boundary
>     was erroneous: sometimes our (or their) territory was hundreds of
>     meters away from were it was supposed to be.
>
>     What I've done was, (again, I didn't want to cause any conflicts
>     with the existing data), remove the old way while at the same time
>     replacing it with one that followed official data from CAOP 2014
>     as well as it having all the tags it previously had, including
>     relations that included said way.
>
>     Again, in my ignorance, I disregarded it as something unimportant
>     to discuss with the Portuguese and the Spanish community because I
>     thoroughly checked every relation to see if I was not breaking
>     anything.
>
>     Regarding the third point, I removed a lot of hamlets, not because
>     I didn't like them, but because I was suspicious they were bad
>     data that was transcribed either from gpspostcode [3] (licence not
>     compatible with OSM) or Google because a lot of hamlets had the
>     exact same coordinates as the information provided by the entities
>     I mentioned just now. Once again, I didn't discuss this removal
>     with the community.
>
>     I've always planned on replacing the data because I don't like
>     removing data from OSM. I asked some family members that live in
>     the same general area where the removals were made about the many
>     hamlets that existed. As of now I've already received information
>     for one municipality which I promptly edited back into OSM. [4]
>
>     In short, I have removed existing data and replaced it with data
>     that was 100% manually verified that was of same or better
>     quality. The central problem is that I removed the history that
>     contributors before me have made. This is a very big mistake I've
>     done, I admit, but it is not vandalism.
>
>     Having stated my arguments, I also come to you to ask permission
>     for you to completely revert my import account in order to correct
>     the mistakes I've done.
>
>     A friendly contributor called naoliv, and I have been trying to
>     find all day a way to successfully conflate the old, deleted data
>     with the new, improved data that I've inserted. What we have found
>     is that it is possible but will take a very long time and it is
>     actually more time efficient to just revert all my edits and start
>     anew, respecting the work of others and the wishes of the
>     community as I should always have done.
>
>     My motto is to help, not hurt the work of others.
>
>     I'm deeply sorry for doing what I've done, it won't happen again. 
>
>     Yours sincerely,
>     Marcos Oliveira aka. ViriatoLusitano
>
>     [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ViriatoLusitano_import
>     [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-pt/2014-November/001038.html
>     [3] http://www.gpspostcode.com/
>     [4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26834569?node_page=6
>     <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26834569?node_page=6>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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