[Talk-se] Mapbox Organized Editing

Fri Mar 21 11:44:41 UTC 2025

Oj! Jag som hoppades att du bara tog en liten pause trist isf!

Jag är ointresserad av NVDB och det mapbox gör, och tycker inte den ger så
mycket i den kartläggning jag gör. Jag vet att du är mycket mer
systematiskt och då kanske en så stor databas fungerar som en dämpning av
den kreativitet som krävs för att lösa saker i kartor.

Jag tycker snarare att problematiken med externa databaser som detta är ett
problem vi ändå skulle ha haft om vi gjorde allt själva.  Alltså att
samarbeta med en massa folk och data.

/emj

Den fre 21 mars 2025 12:31Andreas Arwin Vilén <andreas.vilen at gmail.com>
skrev:

> Denna övertro på NVDB är varför jag i princip helt slutat med OSM. Det är
> inte kul längre. Finns ingen poäng med att rita av en annan databas när man
> bara kan använda den databasen istället.
> /Andreas
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:59 AM Erik Johansson <erjohan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mapping with nvdb is mostly the best armchair mapping, but I agree with
>> Zvenzzon. Would go so far as to say if you replace geometry with nvdb it is
>> hard to be responsible.
>>
>> I use it for correcting ortoerrors.
>>
>> Troger is the DEM available as a tile source now?
>>
>>
>> /emj
>>
>> Den tors 20 mars 2025 22:01Anders Torger via Talk-se <
>> talk-se at openstreetmap.org> skrev:
>>
>>> While there quality in NVDB does vary (it's a collection of multiple
>>> sources) and geometry simplifications does occur, it's on average very
>>> good. You cannot get the same accuracy from Bing or ESRI imagery, if you
>>> want to get similar precision from ortophoto you would need lantmäteriet's
>>> own. Sure if you have your own diff-GPS system you can get more precise,
>>> but most maps from some sort of orthophoto, usually with limited elevation
>>> correction leading to fairly large positional errors.
>>>
>>> Ideally you should use NVDB + Orthophoto + strava heatmap for sanity
>>> checking + local knowledge where available. I've mapped tens of thousands
>>> of roads in this manner in northern Sweden and quality of NVDB is very
>>> good, while roads mapped on (especially older) ortophoto in hilly regions
>>> can be very far off the mark. In city geometry stuff get a bit more
>>> complicated, because there may be simplifications made for navigation which
>>> may not match with OSM tradition, and there you need to deviate at times.
>>> We have an ongoing manual import project with documentation of limitations
>>> and caveats. You should never import blindly, that's why the NVDB import
>>> project (or rather manual merging) takes such long time. If you see errors
>>> like duplicated geometries, clearly the mapper hasn't paid much attention
>>> to his or her merging effort. Any source if misused leads to poor results.
>>>
>>> It's best to use multiple sources and if working in Sweden NVDB should
>>> for sure be one of them, and if the only positional data you have is NVDB
>>> and an ortophoto from Bing or Esri, NVDB is nearly always better
>>> positioned, with the exception of geometry simplification possibly
>>> occurring on multi-lane roads, or sometimes very new forestry roads with
>>> preliminary geometry and other rare exceptions. Naming of forestry roads
>>> can be wonky in places, as the reporting can be patchy and approximate
>>> depending on forestry company responsible for the reporting. Naming of
>>> roads in cities are usually of very high quality.
>>>
>>> The problem with OSM in Sweden is that the coverage can be patchy in
>>> places where there are few active mappers, and some mapping can be rather
>>> outdated. The big cities are usually well covered, or home cities of super
>>> mappers. There are large areas in Sweden which is only occasionally paid
>>> attention to, and there mapping work from people without access to the
>>> ground is needed, and in such a situation using NVDB in a responsible way
>>> as one of the key sources is the best way to go.
>>>
>>> However, if the mapper doesn't really want to make the effort to use
>>> NVDB responsibly and not knowing about its limitations or how you relate to
>>> existing mapping, it's best to not use it of course.
>>>
>>> /Anders
>>>
>>> On 2025-03-20 13:07, Peter Svensson wrote:
>>>
>>> I disagree. The only things that shows exact locations of Swedish roads
>>> are the ground itself. Everything else is approximations and
>>> simplifications which are by definition "not exact". I've lost count of how
>>> many things I've cleaned up after various NVDB import efforts, such as
>>> incorrect names and duplicated/questionable geometries.
>>>
>>> I encourage use of other sources than NVDB for mapping missing roads.
>>>
>>> With regards,
>>>
>>> zvenzzon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Den tors 20 mars 2025 12:31Markku Siipola via Talk-se <
>>> talk-se at openstreetmap.org> skrev:
>>>
>>> Your answers shows you are not aware of NDBD, the National road
>>> database. This source should always be used, and not any source. The NVDB
>>> shows the exact locations of Swedish roads. It's waste of time of not using
>>> this db.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Den 2025-03-20 kl. 08:38, skrev Valeria Yukovich via Talk-se:
>>>
>>> Hello, Snusmumriken! Thank you for the questions.
>>> We will be using available sources which are appropriate for mapping on
>>> OSM (satellite and street-level imagery, for example). Besides that, we
>>> will be also using Mapbox telemetry data and GPS traces in cases when
>>> there is limited evidence. More information about Mapbox telemetry data can
>>> be found here: https://www.mapbox.com/telemetry.
>>> Speaking about our experience with other countries, we mostly
>>> encountered missing roads in newly built residential areas and around
>>> commercial objects, which we did not map in cases if the evidence
>>> (street-level imagery or up-to-date satellites, information from the
>>> telemetry) was not enough for mapping.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 12:18 PM Snusmumriken <
>>> snusmumriken.mapper at runbox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2025-03-18 at 16:46 +0300, Valeria Yukovich via Talk-se wrote:
>>> > Hello from the Mapbox team!
>>> >
>>> > Our team has been mapping missing roads since May (as described
>>> > here: https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/mapbox-organized-editing-
>>> > missing-roads/113678) and currently we are preparing to expand the
>>> > effort to Sweden.
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have basically two questions:
>>> - What sources will you be using in Sweden?
>>> - What are the most common problems you've encountered in other
>>> countries?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-se mailing listTalk-se at openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-se mailing list
>>> Talk-se at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-se mailing list
>>> Talk-se at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-se mailing list
>>> Talk-se at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-se mailing list
>> Talk-se at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-se mailing list
> Talk-se at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-se/attachments/20250321/22e4d7e9/attachment-0001.htm>