[Talk-tr] Talk-tr Digest, Vol 75, Issue 2

Wed Jul 5 01:32:36 UTC 2017

Thanks Jeff for bringing this into our attention and Roman for looking into
this. I think OSM in Turkey is still growing (rather slowly) and needs some
more attention. As Roman mentioned, there is a group on Facebook where
people from Turkey discuss OSM, but it is rather casual and some members do
not speak English. I am an active OSM member mapping in and outside of
Turkey. I am also leading efforts to translate iD to Turkish and OSM wiki
into Turkish.

I've done a quick research on administrative unit system in Turkey. The
document that could be used to model place classification is available here
<https://www.csb.gov.tr/db/cbs/editordosya/Idari_Birim.pdf>. Turkish
administrative system is sort of messy and complicated. I think it is
important to have a discussion about place type classifications.

From
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Administratively_declared_places
perspective, the following mapping sounds reasonable to me:
- place=country => ülke
- place=state => not applicable
- place=region => bölge
- place=province => il
- place=district => semt/ilçe - I think semt is a name used for "ilçe" when
"ilçe" is part of the city center's administrative boundary. The following
image has districts of İstanbul -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Istanbul_location_districts.svg
Semt
vs ilçe don't seem any different. But look at the districts of Eskişehir -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Eski%C5%9Fehir_districts.png
Tepebaşı and Odunpazarı forms the city Eskişehir (marked with black
border). These "semt"s are combined together under "büyükşehir belediyesi".
Look at Afyonkarahisar -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Afyonkarahisar_districts.png
In this case city center only has one "semt/ilçe", which is "Afyonkarahisar
merkezi". They are referred as "merkez ilçe".
- place=county => I don't think this type really applies to Turkey.
- place=municipality => This could be another source of confusion. We've
had recent updates to town smaller than "ilçe", but bigger than "köy". This
type could be mapped to "belde" I think.

Regarding
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Populated_settlements.2C_urban
- place=city => il, şehir, even bigger metropolitan cities are could be
mapped to this type.
- place=borough => I don't think this is really applicable.
- place=suburb => Again this could be used for "'ilçe" and "semt".
- place=quarter => Similar to borough, I don't think this is really
applicable.
- place=neighbourhood => This is mahalle. Within "semt/ilçe" we have
neighbourhoods.
- place=city_block => Doesn't really apply to Turkey.

Looking at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Populated_settlements.2C_urban_and_rural
I can easily tell that Turkish place/administrative unit system doesn't
really fit into here. Let's look at Afyonkarahisar district map again -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Afyonkarahisar_districts.png
I am from Emirdağ. It could be referred as town and district as well. My
town has neighborhoods just like districts have. The municipality system is
same as districts. So I think we can classify them as town and also
district.
- place=town => ilçe, but rural ilçe. "Belde"s are towns that belong to
another town, but bigger than a village.
- place=village => köy (doesn't have municipality, but rather part of a
ilçe, just like belde)
- place=hamlet => mezra/mahalle (be aware the use of mahalle here)
- place=isolated_dwelling => could be mezra/mahalle I think.

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:00 AM, <talk-tr-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Istanbul neighborhood classifications (Jeff Haack)
>    2. Re: Istanbul neighborhood classifications (Roman Neumüller)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:42:29 +0300
> From: Jeff Haack <jeff.haack at hotosm.org>
> To: talk-tr at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-tr] Istanbul neighborhood classifications
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKLN2i93rxg1OQKMh=KXB9PkZq8HCKfiutzq5hWBknWoOEKUjg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi OSMers,
>
> I'm trying to understand the placename classifications in Istanbul and how
> those relate to OSM tags, and hoping someone can help.  In Istanbul there
> are ilçe (districts) and mahalle (neighborhoods).  But then there are also
> semtler - what is the difference between mahalle and semtler?
>
> Also I'm wondering about how to tag places.  From the OSM wiki it seems
> that districts should be place=suburb and mahalle should be
> place=neighborhood, but on the map the districts are usually place=town and
> mahalle/semtleri are either place=suburb or place=neighborhood.  Is there
> any reason for tagging ilçe as place=town?
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion on how to formalize the tags?
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 12:40:49 +0300
> From: Roman Neumüller <email at katpatuka.org>
> To: talk-tr at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-tr] Istanbul neighborhood classifications
> Message-ID: <op.y2uiiblwkn9205 at bigmama>
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>         delsp=yes
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I've been mapping a lot in Turkey but can only tell for sure that
>
> * il = province (admin_level=4)
> * ilçe = town = district = district center (admin_level=6)
> * köy = village (admin_level=8)
>
> Concerning suburb/neighborhood (mahalle/semt) I'm still unsure and up to
> now
> didn't get ANY response from the Turkish community regarding classification
> (see
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-tr/2014-
> November/000362.html)
>
> The community is not very active in the mailinglist - they may be more
> active in
> a facebook group (I don't use fb)
>
>    https://www.facebook.com/OpenStreetMapTurkey/
>
> Semt seems as if only being used in big cities - wikipedia calls them
> "quarters":
>
> * https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Türkiye'deki_semtler
> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Quarters_in_Turkey
>
> Even villages may have 1) suburbs which I give the neighborhood tag and 2)
> "mezra"s
> where I use hamlet.
>
> Yayla vary from location (no house at all) over hamlet (some houses) to
> suburb/village
> (if big like a village)
>
> Wikipedia says yayla = Plateau - in German I'd rather call them "Alm".
>
> Bucak is sort of deprecated
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucak_(administrative_unit))
>
> Another thing is that most villages in metropolitan municipalities have
> been converted
> to suburbs (6360 Metropolıtan Law) after 2012
>
> http://econpapers.repec.org/article/scn000raj/383.htm
>
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2017 10:42:29 +0300, Jeff Haack <jeff.haack at hotosm.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi OSMers,
> >
> > I'm trying to understand the placename classifications in Istanbul and
> > how those relate to OSM tags, and hoping someone can help.  In Istanbul
> > there
> > are ilçe (districts) and mahalle (neighborhoods).  But then there are
> > also semtler - what is the difference between mahalle and semtler?
> >
> > Also I'm wondering about how to tag places.  From the OSM wiki it seems
> > that districts should be place=suburb and mahalle should be
> > place=neighborhood, but on the map the districts are usually place=town
> > and mahalle/semtleri are either place=suburb or place=neighborhood.  Is
> > there
> > any reason for tagging ilçe as place=town?
> >
> > Does anyone have a suggestion on how to formalize the tags?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeff
>
>
> --
> katpatuka.org
>
>
>
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> End of Talk-tr Digest, Vol 75, Issue 2
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