[Talk-tr] Talk-tr Digest, Vol 75, Issue 2

Thu Jul 6 09:20:39 UTC 2017

Sağol Mert!

I think the translation of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place
into Turkish would be quite helpful for beginners. Or a subpage of
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Turkey describing the
place categorization in Turkey...

On Wed, 05 Jul 2017 04:32:36 +0300, Mert Emin Kalender  
<merteminkalender at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Jeff for bringing this into our attention and Roman for looking  
> into this. I think OSM in Turkey is still growing (rather slowly) and  
> needs some more attention. As Roman mentioned, there is a group on  
> Facebook where
> people from Turkey discuss OSM, but it is rather casual and some members  
> do not speak English. I am an active OSM member mapping in and outside of
> Turkey. I am also leading efforts to translate iD to Turkish and OSM wiki
> into Turkish.
>
> I've done a quick research on administrative unit system in Turkey. The
> document that could be used to model place classification is available  
> here <https://www.csb.gov.tr/db/cbs/editordosya/Idari_Birim.pdf>. Turkish
> administrative system is sort of messy and complicated. I think it is
> important to have a discussion about place type classifications.
>
> From
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Administratively_declared_places
> perspective, the following mapping sounds reasonable to me:
> - place=country => ülke
> - place=state => not applicable
> - place=region => bölge
> - place=province => il
> - place=district => semt/ilçe - I think semt is a name used for "ilçe"  
> when
> "ilçe" is part of the city center's administrative boundary. The  
> following
> image has districts of İstanbul -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Istanbul_location_districts.svg
> Semt
> vs ilçe don't seem any different. But look at the districts of Eskişehir  
> -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Eski%C5%9Fehir_districts.png
> Tepebaşı and Odunpazarı forms the city Eskişehir (marked with black
> border). These "semt"s are combined together under "büyükşehir  
> belediyesi".
> Look at Afyonkarahisar -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Afyonkarahisar_districts.png
> In this case city center only has one "semt/ilçe", which is  
> "Afyonkarahisar
> merkezi". They are referred as "merkez ilçe".
> - place=county => I don't think this type really applies to Turkey.
> - place=municipality => This could be another source of confusion. We've
> had recent updates to town smaller than "ilçe", but bigger than "köy".  
> This
> type could be mapped to "belde" I think.
>
> Regarding
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Populated_settlements.2C_urban
> - place=city => il, şehir, even bigger metropolitan cities are could be
> mapped to this type.
> - place=borough => I don't think this is really applicable.
> - place=suburb => Again this could be used for "'ilçe" and "semt".
> - place=quarter => Similar to borough, I don't think this is really
> applicable.
> - place=neighbourhood => This is mahalle. Within "semt/ilçe" we have
> neighbourhoods.
> - place=city_block => Doesn't really apply to Turkey.
>
> Looking at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Populated_settlements.2C_urban_and_rural
> I can easily tell that Turkish place/administrative unit system doesn't
> really fit into here. Let's look at Afyonkarahisar district map again -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Afyonkarahisar_districts.png
> I am from Emirdağ. It could be referred as town and district as well. My
> town has neighborhoods just like districts have. The municipality system  
> is
> same as districts. So I think we can classify them as town and also
> district.
> - place=town => ilçe, but rural ilçe. "Belde"s are towns that belong to
> another town, but bigger than a village.
> - place=village => köy (doesn't have municipality, but rather part of a
> ilçe, just like belde)
> - place=hamlet => mezra/mahalle (be aware the use of mahalle here)
> - place=isolated_dwelling => could be mezra/mahalle I think.
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:00 AM, <talk-tr-request at openstreetmap.org>  
> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Istanbul neighborhood classifications (Jeff Haack)
>>    2. Re: Istanbul neighborhood classifications (Roman Neumüller)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:42:29 +0300
>> From: Jeff Haack <jeff.haack at hotosm.org>
>> To: talk-tr at openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [Talk-tr] Istanbul neighborhood classifications
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAKLN2i93rxg1OQKMh=KXB9PkZq8HCKfiutzq5hWBknWoOEKUjg at mail.
>> gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi OSMers,
>>
>> I'm trying to understand the placename classifications in Istanbul and  
>> how
>> those relate to OSM tags, and hoping someone can help.  In Istanbul  
>> there
>> are ilçe (districts) and mahalle (neighborhoods).  But then there are  
>> also
>> semtler - what is the difference between mahalle and semtler?
>>
>> Also I'm wondering about how to tag places.  From the OSM wiki it seems
>> that districts should be place=suburb and mahalle should be
>> place=neighborhood, but on the map the districts are usually place=town  
>> and
>> mahalle/semtleri are either place=suburb or place=neighborhood.  Is  
>> there
>> any reason for tagging ilçe as place=town?
>>
>> Does anyone have a suggestion on how to formalize the tags?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jeff
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 12:40:49 +0300
>> From: Roman Neumüller <email at katpatuka.org>
>> To: talk-tr at openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [Talk-tr] Istanbul neighborhood classifications
>> Message-ID: <op.y2uiiblwkn9205 at bigmama>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed;
>>         delsp=yes
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> I've been mapping a lot in Turkey but can only tell for sure that
>>
>> * il = province (admin_level=4)
>> * ilçe = town = district = district center (admin_level=6)
>> * köy = village (admin_level=8)
>>
>> Concerning suburb/neighborhood (mahalle/semt) I'm still unsure and up to
>> now
>> didn't get ANY response from the Turkish community regarding  
>> classification
>> (see
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-tr/2014-
>> November/000362.html)
>>
>> The community is not very active in the mailinglist - they may be more
>> active in
>> a facebook group (I don't use fb)
>>
>>    https://www.facebook.com/OpenStreetMapTurkey/
>>
>> Semt seems as if only being used in big cities - wikipedia calls them
>> "quarters":
>>
>> * https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Türkiye'deki_semtler
>> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Quarters_in_Turkey
>>
>> Even villages may have 1) suburbs which I give the neighborhood tag and  
>> 2)
>> "mezra"s
>> where I use hamlet.
>>
>> Yayla vary from location (no house at all) over hamlet (some houses) to
>> suburb/village
>> (if big like a village)
>>
>> Wikipedia says yayla = Plateau - in German I'd rather call them "Alm".
>>
>> Bucak is sort of deprecated
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucak_(administrative_unit))
>>
>> Another thing is that most villages in metropolitan municipalities have
>> been converted
>> to suburbs (6360 Metropolıtan Law) after 2012
>>
>> http://econpapers.repec.org/article/scn000raj/383.htm
>>
>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2017 10:42:29 +0300, Jeff Haack <jeff.haack at hotosm.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi OSMers,
>> >
>> > I'm trying to understand the placename classifications in Istanbul and
>> > how those relate to OSM tags, and hoping someone can help.  In  
>> Istanbul
>> > there
>> > are ilçe (districts) and mahalle (neighborhoods).  But then there are
>> > also semtler - what is the difference between mahalle and semtler?
>> >
>> > Also I'm wondering about how to tag places.  From the OSM wiki it  
>> seems
>> > that districts should be place=suburb and mahalle should be
>> > place=neighborhood, but on the map the districts are usually  
>> place=town
>> > and mahalle/semtleri are either place=suburb or place=neighborhood.   
>> Is
>> > there
>> > any reason for tagging ilçe as place=town?
>> >
>> > Does anyone have a suggestion on how to formalize the tags?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Jeff
>>
>>
>> --
>> katpatuka.org
>>
>>
>>
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>> End of Talk-tr Digest, Vol 75, Issue 2
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