[Talk-us-massachusetts] Talk-us-massachusetts Digest, Vol 62, Issue 1

[Yury Yatsynovich]

I agree with Greg -- "Mass Turnpike" is an abbreviation and should not be
in the "name" tag. Road signs sometimes use alternative/shortened spelling
(to save space on signs or make it easier to read from a moving vehicle?)
like "Northboro" instead of "Northborough", but the official name of the
town is still "Northborough".


On Sun, Jul 3, 2022, 7:39 AM <
talk-us-massachusetts-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Mass Pike naming convention (Brian M. Sperlongano)
>    2. Re: Mass Pike naming convention (Nicholas Davidowicz)
>    3. Re: [Talk-us] Mass Pike naming convention (Greg Troxel)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 17:47:35 -0400
> From: "Brian M. Sperlongano" <zelonewolf at gmail.com>
> To: OSM Massachusetts <talk-us-massachusetts at openstreetmap.org>
> Cc: talk-us <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [Talk-us-massachusetts] Mass Pike naming convention
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAMrfQx2BnSBjEfKxtHNgCVBWE2w7_bYq8SpsTLu7SZ9o1+L3mA at mail.gmail.com>
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>
> Folks,
>
> The ways and relation for the Mass Pike currently uses the fully-spelled
> out official name of the highway, "Massachusetts Turnpike".  However, on
> all signs I've ever seen, and in colloquial usage, we call it the "Mass
> Pike".
>
> Here is an example way:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9126375
>
> Tagged:
> name=Massachusetts Turnpike
>
> Since all local usage and signage is Mass Pike, I propose that this be
> changed to the following:
> name=Mass Pike
> official_name=Massachusetts Turnpike
>
> This will put the actually-used name in first position in data consumer
> usage such as in rendered maps, while allowing both versions to come up in
> searches, such as in geocoders like Nominatim.
>
> I am including talk-us in this discussion in case there are similar
> examples like this in other parts of the country that we might learn from.
>
> I checked the latest TIGER layer over at
> https://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/tigerweb/ and it doesn't even seem to put
> a
> text name on it, just the I-90 Interstate shield.
>
> Thoughts?
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 18:42:19 -0400
> From: Nicholas Davidowicz <nicholasdavidowicz at gmail.com>
> To: "Brian M. Sperlongano" <zelonewolf at gmail.com>
> Cc: OSM Massachusetts <talk-us-massachusetts at openstreetmap.org>,
>         talk-us <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us-massachusetts] Mass Pike naming convention
> Message-ID:
>         <CAOPqmaxrcbN5DXrRjoTCJ-Y1fpMnpQOCMG+=
> icddR8uXtgC5Zg at mail.gmail.com>
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>
> Yeah I think that is a good idea, always ideal for actual signage names to
> be reflected. Let me know if help is needed with this.
>
> Nick
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 5:50 PM Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > The ways and relation for the Mass Pike currently uses the fully-spelled
> > out official name of the highway, "Massachusetts Turnpike".  However, on
> > all signs I've ever seen, and in colloquial usage, we call it the "Mass
> > Pike".
> >
> > Here is an example way:
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9126375
> >
> > Tagged:
> > name=Massachusetts Turnpike
> >
> > Since all local usage and signage is Mass Pike, I propose that this be
> > changed to the following:
> > name=Mass Pike
> > official_name=Massachusetts Turnpike
> >
> > This will put the actually-used name in first position in data consumer
> > usage such as in rendered maps, while allowing both versions to come up
> in
> > searches, such as in geocoders like Nominatim.
> >
> > I am including talk-us in this discussion in case there are similar
> > examples like this in other parts of the country that we might learn
> from.
> >
> > I checked the latest TIGER layer over at
> > https://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/tigerweb/ and it doesn't even seem to
> put
> > a text name on it, just the I-90 Interstate shield.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-us-massachusetts mailing list
> > Talk-us-massachusetts at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us-massachusetts
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 20:33:36 -0400
> From: Greg Troxel <gdt at lexort.com>
> To: Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org>
> Cc: Mike Thompson <miketho16 at gmail.com>, "Brian M. Sperlongano"
>         <zelonewolf at gmail.com>, OSM Massachusetts
>         <talk-us-massachusetts at openstreetmap.org>, talk-us
>         <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us-massachusetts] [Talk-us] Mass Pike naming
>         convention
> Message-ID: <rmir133uja7.fsf at s1.lexort.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org> writes:
>
> > For what it's worth, seconded.
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 5:00 PM Mike Thompson <miketho16 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> According to the wiki, the name should not contain abbreviations[0], and
> >> "Mass" is an abbreviation for "Massachusetts." I suggest short_name=Mass
> >> Pike.  Data consumers can look to this key, or can perform their own
> >> abbreviation/shortening.
> >>
> >> Just my 2 cents, and I am not from Mass.
> >>
> >> Mike
>
> My reaction on reading is that the actual official name belongs in name,
> and I concur with Mike and Paul.  And I am in MA.  ~Everybody knows that
> the formal name is Massachusetts Turnpike (note that a fair number of
> people are clear on approximately nothing :-).  Random link that
> confirms that:
>
> https://www.mass.gov/service-details/massachusetts-turnpike-fuels-excise-refund-program
>
> There are roads where the name in OpenStreetMap is "Massachusetts
> Avenue", the legal name of the road, but I think signs usually say MASS
> AVE.  Definitely RD and ST appear on signs, and we don't change name= to
> match.
>
> So, I think it's clear that signs are often abbreviations of the actual
> names.  I know we have a long history of talking about "verifiability",
> but it's trivial to verify the official name by consulting the public
> records of the entity that is authorized to name it; their statements
> make it so.  And nobody is actually confused about the facts; the
> present question is whether name= is the actual name or the abbreviation
> used on signs.  I suepect Brian didn't realize that esentially all
> street signs are abbreviations.  I'll keep my eye open for a
> non-abreviated one, which I bet exists but I would find it novel.
> (Found it: Way has no abbreviation, but I meant a name which could be
> abbreviated and isn't.)
>
> Greg
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