[Talk-us] Signs on the ground was Re: Street Naming Conventions

[Lord-Castillo, Brett]

Well, that brings up yet another issue. Olive Blvd is also State Highway 340. So, while the local jurisdictions or county are responsible for the street names, the state is responsible for the signage on Olive Blvd itself. As a result, the street signs are inconsistent. If you go up to the intersection of Old Olive Street Rd and Guelbreth Ln, you will find that the street signs now read "Old Olive St. Rd" rather than (the use of a period in the street name is to indicate that Street has been abbreviated to fit the sign and is not part of the official name).
http://maps.google.com/maps?layer=c&cbll=38.675457,-90.408147&panoid=qiq2gCAHv8TR6HxNuQLn0g&cbp=12,335.15,,0,19.32&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=38.675443,-90.408039&spn=0,0.026157&z=16

You are right on the other section. Turns out the only parcel on it (a high school) has been readdressed to "North Olive Spur Rd", eliminating Old Olive St Road (possibly because of the confusion, but it is interesting to note that the online maps have not caught up yet). The street sign is still wrong (North is part of the name), but at least some of the confusion is gone from the two road names. To add to the fun, I was driving Olive today and saw a street sign for yet another segment with signage for Olive Street Rd (not Old Olive Street Rd). Turns out it used to be Olive Street rd; another chunk left over from the realignment of olive
http://revenue.stlouisco.com/revWebDocs/asrPlats/108%20BK%209%20581.pdf
(Not sure that will work external)
But the state has placed that sign; there are no addresses there anymore with that name and the county no longer recognizes it as Olive Street Rd, instead having renamed it Toreador Dr. Right next to the Olive Street Rd sign is another sign that says Toreador Dr. I know this last bit of trivia has little bearing on the road naming conventions, but I just thought it was interesting how screwy things get when one entity (the county) is responsible for street names and another (the state) is responsible for street signs.

Brett Lord-Castillo
Information Systems Designer/GIS Programmer
St. Louis County Police
Office of Emergency Management
14847 Ladue Bluffs Crossing Drive
Chesterfield, MO 63017
Office: 314-628-5400
Fax: 314-628-5508
Direct: 314-628-5407



-----Original Message-----

Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:43:54 -0400
From: Nathan Edgars II <neroute2 at gmail.com>
Subject: [Talk-us] Street Naming Conventions
To: talk-us at openstreetmap.org
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Lord-Castillo, Brett wrote:
>The road that now bears all the "Olive" names was originally Plank Rd, the major road through St Louis County when it was rural. The main road went through several name changes (Plank Rd, Olive Rd, Olive St, Olive Street Rd, Olive Blvd). But, it also was realigned, creating orphaned segments of road with business on them. So, depending on when the section of road was orphaned, it picked up different names. All the orphaned segments became "Road" for their type. There is no more Plank Rd (or orphaned Plank Rd segments). But, going in order, orphaned segments became Old Olive Rd, Old Olive Street Rd, Old Olive St Rd (to differentiate that it was orphaned off Olive Street Rd instead of Olive St), and the currently alignment is Olive Blvd (but the next set of orphans should be Old Olive Boulevard Rd).

I'm still confused. Why do you say it's wrong to call the one off
Creve Coeur Mill Road "Old Olive Street Road"? (By the way, what do
the street signs say? Looks like "Olive Spur":
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=38.683027,-90.488221&spn=0,0.008234&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.682966,-90.488107&panoid=Retgfa_YfogoQb1_cwXbpg&cbp=12,26.81,,0,-6.61
- if so, that's what OSM should show. And on Olive Boulevard west of
Lindbergh, one of the traffic light-mounted signs says "Old Olive
Street Rd", the other "Old Olive St Rd":
http://maps.google.com/maps?layer=c&cbll=38.673196,-90.413365&panoid=qgVz1VhqBHZcd1RLK6n-ag&cbp=12,59.7,,0,4.47&ie=UTF8&ll=38.673194,-90.413243&spn=0,0.008234&t=h&z=18
- so the "on the ground" rule doesn't jibe with your suggestion to
spell out "Street" here but abbreviate it "St" to the west.)