[Talk-us] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Using 'Kort' outside of Switzerland

Peter Davies peter.davies at crc-corp.com
Sat Jan 18 18:57:17 UTC 2014


Hello again.  Thank you for the info about how Kort works.  As a newcomer
to OSM I wasn't familiar with keepright.

Upon further study I discover that a user has added tags for Portland's
Northwest (and Southwest) Naito Parkway in Japanese, and that keepright
wants to know the language of the original name.  This must be why Kort
repeatedly asks me to specify the (English) language of ways on this street.

On the bi-lingual questions, I just came back from a trip to Switzerland
and had noticed the different approach to language signing than that of
(say) Canada.  Except in Quebec, much of which is signed only in French,
most Canadian streets are named (say) "Rue Blackshaw Street" on a single
name plate, with Rue and Street in smaller text than the core name itself.
 As you say, this is not the practice in Switzerland.  And Kort reflects
this. Good!

The policy question of whether city streets in Portland should be tagged
bilingually in English and Japanese is currently beyond me. It is possible
that the city has signed this street in Japanese as well as English.  I'll
take a look now I know what's going on.

Thank you for helping me understand how Kort works,


On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:

>  Hi Peter
> The underlying errors that are used for the challenges in Kort are
> generated by keepright
> http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?zoom=12&lat=39.95356&lon=-75.12364and while the Kort authors select suitable errors for the game itself, they
> don't influence what keepright considers an error directly (see
> https://github.com/kort/kort/wiki). That said, perhaps a pointer to one
> of the roads in question would be helpful, IMHO keepright doesn't actually
> complain about missing language on street names (it does about the same for
> other objects).
> Simon
> PS: while Switzerland has numerous places that are truly bi-lingual, most
> aren't and current practice is not to add and extra name:de, name:fr,
> name:it or name:rm if there is only one name (which, if you think of it
> might lead to issues in exactly such bi-lingual places). Anyway I
> definitely don't have a couple of 100 Kort challenges around where I live
> (mono-lingual German speaking region), so likely you are seeing something
> different.
> Am 17.01.2014 00:24, schrieb Peter Davies:
> Simon,
>  I tried Kort here in Portland, Oregon. It gave me some interesting
> things to think about. I'd hoped to send them to talk-ch, but it seems I
> can't without subscribing in the longer term.  Maybe you can relay this to
> your local colleagues?
>  Kort gave me three types of mission. One was to enter the language of
> some street names here in Portland. The second was to enter some speed
> limits, and the third was to name a pub.
>  As feedback, and as a suggestion on how the game might need to be
> modified for countries outside Switzerland, I don't think that specifying
> the language of a street sign is useful in essentially monolingual
> countries. In the USA, street signs should always be considered to be in
> English. There is no reason to tag them with any language in OpenStreetMap.
>  English is the default.
>  There are interesting questions, of course: El Camino Real is a common
> street name in California, and is obviously Spanish, so what is the correct
> English name?  Is it "The Royal Road"? No, I don't think so; we would not
> want to translate this to create an American English name.  The correct
> name in English is  "El Camino Real."  The Spanish name has been adopted
> into English usage.  Local English speakers would all say "El Camino Real."
>  These thoughts lead me to the "Avenue des Champs-Élysées". Should we
> write "Elysian Fields Avenue" in English? No, of course not.  Almost
> everyone has heard of the Champs-Élysées, and no-one would dream of
> writing the "Elysian Fields". So should we be translating street names at
> all?  My conclusion is that only countries with separate, major linguistic
> communities actually do this. Personally I'd like my map to say "
> Hauptbahnhofstrasse" and not "Central Station Street", so I could find it
> on other maps and signs, or try to ask for it correctly in Solothurn.
>  On the other two questions, I knew that the urban speed limits were all
> 25 mph, because this is the blanket limit in Oregon's urban areas, but when
> I tried to enter this it was rejected. I was allowed to enter 25, but I
> worried that Kort might think this was in km/h.  Would it enter 25 km/h
> into OpenStreetMap if someone confirmed my response?  Meanwhile I found all
> of central Portland's residential roads without speed tags in JOSM and
> set them to 25 mph.
>  Finally the pub: I didn't know it!  It still remains to be answered.
>  Thank you for this interesting game,
>  Peter
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 4:38 AM, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>> From the talk mailing list (mandatory disclosure: yes I know the authors).
>> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>> Hi there,
>>  I'm very proud to announce that finally Kort[1] (the OSM game) writes
>> back it's collected solutions to OSM! All changes are made by the OSM user
>> "kort-to-osm"[2], so it's easy to track them.
>>  Our actions were coordinated with the local (Swiss) community and the
>> Data Working Group (DWG). According to the "Mechanical Edit Policy"[3] all
>> changesets have the tag mechanical=yes and the users profile page contains
>> all relevant information about the project. With all the extra information
>> in the changeset comment, we are able to trace back an edit through Kort
>> and even further to its source. By the way, for most missions KeepRight[4]
>> is the source.
>>  Until now we made over 280 changes. All changes were validated by at
>> least 3 users. There are still lots of solved missions that are just
>> waiting to be validated, so that we are able to finally provides them to
>> OSM.
>>  The source code for kort-to-osm is available on GitHub[5], you are very
>> welcome to open issues or provide pull requests. The underlying python
>> library to access the OpenStreetMap API is osmapi[6].
>>  ***Apart from this big step, Kort itself has some new features:***
>> - Upgrade to Sencha Touch 2.3 -> now all major browsers are supported
>> (IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari)
>> - Thanks to our new database server, we can provide missions in the USA
>> as well (no more limits!)
>> - Our homepage kort.ch is available in English, too :)
>>  Any remarks, comments, issues etc. are very welcome!
>>  Best regards Stefan
>>  [1] http://www.kort.ch/index_en.html resp. http://play.kort.ch
>> [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kort-to-osm
>>  [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy
>> [4] http://keepright.at
>> [5] https://github.com/kort/kort-to-osm
>>  [6] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/osmapi
>> _______________________________________________
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