[Talk-us] Trunk

Dave Swarthout daveswarthout at gmail.com
Sun Oct 8 05:28:47 UTC 2017

I m following this conversation in hopes that if it ever gets resolved
someone will update the Wiki. I have my fears that, along with many other
contentious issues, it may never be resolved to the satisfaction of all

Meanwhile, I'm doing major work in Alaska and although my current focus is
primarily on adding geographic features, this issue has practical
implications for me. The George Parks Highway and the Alaska Highway come
to mind immediately. They are a bit of a mish-mash with some sections
tagged motorway, some trunk, and the speed limit varies from 65 mph in
rural areas down to 40 mph in towns. That's the nature of the highway
system in Alaska where a single highway serves an immense largely
unpopulated geographical and area. Most sections of those highways are
"trunk" roads by most definitions yet they have normal at-grade
intersections, intersections with driveways, tracks, etc.

I'm a novice with highway tagging of this sort but if any of you more
experienced mappers would care to take a look at those two highways, any
feedback would be appreciated.

Keep up the good work.


On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Bill Ricker <bill.n1vux at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Richie Kennedy
>> <richiekennedy56 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> That's entirely on you at this point, I edit in good faith.
>> > OTOH, you did know that a local mapper (me) would dispute the
>> > classification. I would consider that to be bad faith.
>> > Likewise, I should clarify that I do not intend to make unilateral
>> > changes to the map.
>> Largely separate from the wiki/tag debate about how America should
>> implement Brit-centric tags (that defy common sense here), the above
>> portion of the exchange is also important.
> Well, except I legitimately had no reason to expect Richie to be upset
> when I was catching up on my (then rather huge) backlog of notes; more on
> that below.
>> NE2 was "objectively wrong" *^ _and_ /unilaterally/ /bulk-editing/
>> from the /armchair/.
> Annoyingly, a lot of the current trunk debacle is leftover from the mass
> edit he did on ref:US to highway=trunk, when it was already in active use
> to fill that "bigger than primary, but not a freeway" gap that didn't get
> reverted.  Most DOTs have, even on their own maps, in the US have a
> different classification for that "freeway like thing with a mix of
> intersections and ramps" and "super 2" style roads that is roughly
> analogous (in America's own idiosyncratic ways) to a trunk the OSM
> classification.  I don't think anybody's really clear what NE2's definition
> was on that one other than "anything with a US in the route number is a
> trunk if it's not a motorway".  With that in mind, I would encourage to
> check the history on trunks (particularly edge cases that could slide to
> motorway or primary) and take NE2's opinion with a grain of salt.
> Martijn van Exel's dealing with this problem in Utah right now.  I feel
> like we'd be closer to a consensus on this in general had the
> bulk-edit-to-trunk situation had at least reverted to what was in the TIGER
> import.  It wouldn't have been perfect but it would have been closer to
> reality than what we got left with, hindsight being 20/20 on this.
>> If one of us coastal armchair mappers unilaterally bulk-edits Richie's
>> local roads, we'd have three out of four NE2-likeness points on us.
>> There is plenty of wrong to fix without declaring edit-war on Richie's
>> roads.
>> Let's give the local mapper the benefit of the doubt in the DB at
>> least until the Wiki-war is finished.
>> (And even then, cut the local some slack.)
> We're both relatively local to the place in question.  Richie might be
> closer, but I'm not obliviously ignorant to the area in question.  We've
> crossed paths on the map before and, to my recollection, we've never had
> issues.  In my 8 years on the project so far, I can pretty safely say this
> is a very cooperative community.  I felt a little blindsided on that, hence
> my initial response.
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Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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