[Openstreetmap] UK County boundaries FOI Act request

Clive Galway evilc at evilc.com
Mon Oct 10 19:05:04 BST 2005


Hi all, first posting here, I was contacted by Mike Ryan because he saw
my post on google groups (
http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-API/browse_thread/thread/7999
f7ebd4cb8694/79ebbb83878c0fc3?q=uk
<http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-API/browse_thread/thread/799
9f7ebd4cb8694/79ebbb83878c0fc3?q=uk&rnum=5#79ebbb83878c0fc3>
&rnum=5#79ebbb83878c0fc3 )

 

I have since been denied my initial request, but it is currently on
appeal and then I intend to go to the ombudsman over this, who has
informed me that I have quite a good chance of success.

 

Unfortunately I cannot find the original email I sent them, I think I
sent it using webmail, so it may well be lost forever :-(

 

Basically I requested coordinate info for the boundaries of all UK
Unitary Authorities (UAs) under the Freedom of Information act.

 

 

The reply:

 

Our Reference: FOI00257/Galway/QE2

 

Dear Mr Galway

 

Thank you for your email dated 2nd September regarding the release of
the latest boundary coordinates for all UK Unitary Authorities.  The
Office for National Statistics has decided not to disclose the
information you have requested.

 

BoundaryLine is an Ordnance Survey (OS) digital boundaries product,
which includes county and UA coordinates, it is not a paint program.  It
also contains digitised administrative boundaries.  OS own, maintain and
have copyright of this data and are an organisation that trades on a
commercial basis.

 

ONS pay OS money to be licensed to use this product within our own
organisation for internal business use only.  However, ONS do not pay OS
any money to enable us to pass this data on for free or to re-sell it to
others.  If anyone outside of ONS requires access to this data they
should be referred directly to OS themselves.

 

Contact details for OS are as
follows:email:customerservices at ordnancesurvey.co.uk, telephone: 0845
6050505

 

Given that the information is data that is owned, commercially traded,
and under the copyright of another organisation and  that it is already
available to you directly from OS, ONS considers that the information is
exempt from the Freedom of Information Act by virtue of sections 43 and
section 21 of that Act.

 

In answer to your other questions surrounding OA and SOA boundaries:

 

ONS devised and constructed these boundaries, however some data in OS
BoundaryLine was used to constrain them.  Thus OS have some Intellectual
Property Right (IPR) in these boundaries (approximately 10%).  As these
boundaries have been devised by ONS for statistical outputs, we have
paid OS money to allow us to pass them on for free to others for their
own personal or internal business use.

 

To use your formula:

 

Data set A (BoundaryLine) costs ONS and anyone else X to be licensed by
OS to use it for internal business use.

 

Data set B (Output Area Boundaries) partially uses data set A and cost
ONS Y to construct.  As ONS has an interest in ensuring data set B is
freely available, ONS have paid OS Z to be able to do this.

 

You have the right to have this decision reviewed internally by an
internal review process and, if you remain unhappy with the decision, by
the Information Commissioner. If you would like to have the decision
reviewed please write to Mike Hughes, Group Director, National
Statistics Policy Group, Office for National Statistics, Drummond Gate,
London, SW1V 2QQ.

 

If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me. Please
remember to quote the reference number above in any future
communications.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Nicola Shearman

FOI Officer

Office for National Statistics

 

My Appeal:

I would like to appeal against this decision.

 

Here is why I am disputing your refusal:

 

1) Political boundaries are fact. They may, as you say, be based upon
constraints derived from boundaryline, but once a governmental body has
defined what, for example, surrey consists of - surely it becomes a
fact. OS nor anyone else can copyright a fact. There is no way in my
mind nor in the mind of any of the copyright experts I have spoken to
that OS can "own" our countries' boundaries. If OS decided to change the
boundary of a county because they felt like it, could they ? No.

 

2) Your arguments are contradictory and don't make sense

>From an email from Nicola.Shearman at ons.gsi.gov.uk:

"ONS pay OS money to be licensed to use this product within our own
organisation for internal business use only.  However, ONS do not pay OS
any money to enable us to pass this data on for free or to re-sell it to
others.  If anyone outside of ONS requires access to this data they
should be referred directly to OS themselves."

 

Here you are saying you do not have the right to distribute the data I
am after. What's more you say that you are paying OS to license PRODUCT
(BoundaryLine). The product and some of the data that comes with it may
be copyrighted, but some data within it and some data generated using it
may not.

 

>From an email from Patricia.Fearnley at ons.gsi.gov.uk:

"Although there would be some work involved in compiling the boundaries
for Unitary Authorities, there is a way that this can be done without
any cost to yourself. You can order a CD of Output Area boundaries free
of charge from our Census Customer Services and I have listed their
contact details below for you. <edited out for brevity> Output Area
codes are made up of 10 digits the first 6 of which are the relevant
ward code, the last 4 denote the OA's within that ward. Therefore it is
possible to derive the ward boundaries from these."

 

Here you are saying that you freely give away the data I am after,
albeit in an obfuscated form. This contradicts the last quote.

 

If it is a copyrighted work, then obfuscating the data does not
"un-copyright" the work, it merely makes it a "derivative work" and
still covered by the original copyright.

 

Yours Sincerely,

Clive Galway

 

Currently, that is where it stands. I am awaiting a reply to the appeal.

 

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