[OSM-talk] Subway station vs. subway entrance

[Joerg Ostertag (OSM Munich/Germany)]

On Sunday 18 February 2007 13:37, Guenther Meyer wrote:
> Am Sonntag 18 Februar 2007 13:18 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
> > No. We will someday want to use our data for pedestrian routing -
> > automatic generation of instructions like "cross road at intersection
> > blah and then enter tube station foo". This is impossible without the
> > entrances mapped.
>
> I think, for navigation it's enough, to bring people close to the
> destination; so that they just have to open their eyes to see the entrance.

If you can use your eyes this might be an option. But some friends of mine are 
blind and don't have the possibility to see. For them a spoken navigation 
with precise details is really vital. Yes and I would also tag things like 
Pedestrian-crossing, Traffic-light-with-beeper-for-blind-people, 
park-bench, ... just because there are things i might be able to see, but 
others are not.

> It's not possible, and doesn't make sense, to get people to the exact spot
> via gps, if they want to find something.

It definitely does! And we shouldn't think only of places where we do have GPS 
reception. Since already some of the newer IBM-Notebooks do have motion 
sensors inside you could vague interpolate your position even in places where 
you don't have GPS-reception.

> when you try do do it this way, you have to be consequent, and have to do
> gps navigation in the subterranian areas of subway stations, shopping
> malls, ... which is not possible.

Well, there a two ways to do this. The simplest method is to count steps. 
which really works perfect. The little bit more technical solution would be 
to have a compass and one of those walking step counters. And the full 
technical solution would add one of these acceleration sensors to your 
system. But from my experiences the simple method of interpolating by just 
waling and drawing works almost perfect.

> that's one problem I have with osm. it's a great project, but it seems,
> that people here like to tag every little dust particle.

Well, this is perfectly fine with me. The solution for others to get suitable 
map are those above mentioned views. You definitely need different views of 
the map if you:
   - are handicapped and blind
   - are a out there a seeing pedestrian
   - ride a bicycle
   - go by bus and underground
   - go by motorbike
   - go by car
   - drive a large truck
   - go by train
   - walk in the countryside
   - try to fly over an area
   - try to look for the perfect area to fly a kite
   - search for the next wlan host-spot
   - search for a good spot to place wavelan antennas to connect two buildings
   -  ..... and there a definitely a dozen more views

> you can't guide someone to his destination only by looking at the
> map/navigation-device. 

For all my friends this is one thing I hope we can do one day. And I'm 
convinced we're able to do this.

> if you like to do that, you have to tag also every 
> pole standing around...

Oh by the way those small poles are not really a problem. For this purpose the 
do have there white cane ;-)
But think of yourself. wouldn't it be nice to place a pole in the middle of 
the street into the database. So you could see the in the map in advance. The 
blind people wouldn't care about this pole, because they just walk by. But 
what about you trying to drive through; I might be a little hazel ;-)

So my petition here is to also try to see things just from another point of 
view too and how we can combine all these in our database. 

-- 

Jörg (Germany, Munich)

http://www.ostertag.name/
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