[OSM-talk] AND donate entire street network of Netherlands toOSM

Andy Robinson Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk
Thu Jul 5 09:05:56 BST 2007

It's nice to see the posts returning to some semblance of normality ;-)

While I don't condone Steve's language I can understand the complete
frustration he feels when the response to hard work and really great news is
neutral or negative.

Deals like the one with AND take positive marketing, time and enthusiasm
from those involved and the building of trust. Not all of these are fully in
place when the deal is struck and so they need nurturing. New partnerships
with OSM need time to develop fully, time for both sides to understand how
they can work together for the common good. AND have offered a huge boost to
OSM, not just because of the data they bring but because of the message it
sends out to the wider community, to those who are thinking about getting
involved and supporting the project, and by that I mean both new individuals
as well as organisations and commercial companies. It's a sign that OSM is
very successful and going places and everyone involved in the project, from
coder to contributor, can take credit for that.

The initial agreement with AND sees OSM obtaining data not just for the
Netherlands but India and China too.  For India and China it's just the
major road networks but just think about what benefit a basic road network
in China will be in terms of helping local people there to start filling out
the mapping. If AND can do this then maybe others will, maybe we can get
some basic road networks for developing countries to give them a head start.
After all it's the places on this planet where communities simply don't have
accessible digital mapping of any sort where OSM can really help and prove
its real worth.

So let's cut through the crap and get back to the business of making our
cool map data even cooler, because right now all of the geodata community
worldwide is watching with interest at OSM's rapid rise in status. There is
absolutely no reason at all to think that the project will be anything other
than a huge long term success. So I suggest everyone tightens their
seatbelts, the next couple of years and more is likely going to be a very
fast and at times bumpy ride.



Andy Robinson
Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: talk-bounces at openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
>bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of paul youlten
>Sent: 05 July 2007 7:36 AM
>To: talk at openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] AND donate entire street network of Netherlands
>Martjin forgot to point out that global warming and rising sea levels makes
>all the NL data quite worthless.
>Steve, frankly, if you import this data into OSM you will probably be
>liable for hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of lovely dutch people
>and children drowning as they try to cycle down roads that are flooded.
>Have you checked with your lawyers? I hope for your sake that the
>International Court at The Hague is inundated before they arrest you for
>In future can you please focus on mountainous countries like Nepal and Peru
>that are less likely to be flooded?
>thanks for listening
>Paul Y
>p.s: has anyone else notices that: "OpenStreetMap Foundation" is an an
>anagram of "Nasty Steve's map destroy humans" [if you add a few letters]?
>On 7/5/07, D Tucny <d at tucny.com> wrote:
>	On 05/07/07, Steve Coast <steve at asklater.com > wrote:
>		On 4 Jul 2007, at 20:34, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
>		> On 7/4/07, Immanuel Scholz <imi at eigenheimstrasse.de >
>		>> Really, I try not to be skeptical, but what do they have
>from "making
>		>> their map available" (hope this is read as in "releasing
>		>> under
>		>> CC-By-SA, not something crippled like the Yahoo affair?)
>		>
>		> It was suggested on IRC that it may have to do with:
>		> 1. AND is not the biggest provider on NL.
>		> 2. The NL govt was opening up the road maps within 2 years
>		> (This was well known, the delay was so companies like
>		> (teleatlas) had a chance to change business. AND has now
>		> short-circuited this and hopefully caught their
>		> guard).
>		>
>		> In other words, the value of the NL road network to them
>		> not very large. Maintaining it costs money and there's no
>long terms
>		> gains to be made. This way they generate good will,
>		> of a maintainence burden and hopefully get a head start on
>data for
>		> other countries where it's not so easy.
>		>
>		> It's all guesswork though.
>		>
>		> I'm waiting for the fine-print.
>		If people like you weren't such fuckwits, people like me
>		harder on OSM.
>		I mean honestly, why would anyone pour their heart and soul
>		things like this if this is the response you get?
>		Why don't you sad, deprived, negative people try and push
>		original and new forward rather than crapping all over
>something that
>		you don't have the will or imagination to do?
>		You dumb fucks, if anyone listened to you we'd just phone up
>AND and
>		tell them we don't even want their help. Please just fuck
>	Hi,
>	I read the mail from kleptog as being a discussion on the reasons
>would be doing this... AND is a business and it wouldn't make good business
>sense to give their assets away without having a plan... kleptog discussed
>the changing environment of street data in the Netherlands and how this may
>have influenced AND into taking the step to joining OSM... Whatever AND has
>regarding plans for the future business, the fact that they've seen the
>benefits of joining OSM and offering up their data showing they are serious
>about the project is a good thing... I didn't read kleptog's mail as having
>a negative tone or in some way trying to hurt the project, I just read it
>as a reasonably free from emotion analysis of the information available...
>	I guess you are under a good deal of stress at the moment, I know
>that you have been personally working on quite a lot for the project at the
>moment, and there have been a number of very negative posts in different
>threads, sometimes aimed at you personally... But, especially here,
>especially with this reply, maybe it could prove more useful to try to hold
>off on replies like this, take some deep breaths, re-read what has been
>said and try to respond in a much calmer way... Please try to calm down a
>little, it's good that you are so passionate about the project, but, I
>don't think replies like this really help anyone and the feelings you were
>obviously feeling while writing it can't be good for your health...
>	d
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