[OSM-talk] enough

D Tucny d at tucny.com
Fri Mar 30 20:11:23 BST 2007

I'd just like to day, I appreciate all the work you've put into this, yahoo
imagery could really give OSM lots of help, and the work you've put into get
us to the point we are I'm sure has already proved amazingly valuable to the
project... I'll admit, I've not used it, and the reason is not that I
disagree with any of the conditions, the reason for me is that Yahoo's
coverage of the area I'm in is not good enough to use...

I hope Yahoo's imagery of my area improves, then I'll have more of an
interest in it and put more effort into trying to make it work... I know
this sounds selfish to a certain extent... but... I do think it's worthwhile
to have this and I just wish it could benefit me, especially in areas where
GPS signals are difficult or where it's just not possible to use GPS, e.g.
to map the islands in a lake that you can't visit and that landsat's imagery
is just too low res...

To cover the problem that's being repeated mentioned... I personally believe
that having to comply with Yahoo's contractual limitations isn't a big deal,
if we can find a way to use the data, great, we all benefit, if we waste a
bit of time, as a group, finding ways to use their data that are
incompatible with their contractual limitations, but, later, find a way that
is compatible, that is also great... I know it must be hard for those people
who've put a lot of time and effort into finding ways that they think
could/should meet yahoo's restrictions, only to be knocked back by a 'you
can't do this' type statement... but... in the long run, it's better to have
solid answers about the position of the data now, then to find out later,
after a lot of people have spent a lot more time deriving data from yahoo's
data and facing the potential of having to remove it...

We have to face the fact, as I'm sure someone else has mentioned, that yahoo
are in the same boat as us, they have been granted, whether they paid huge
amounts of cash or not, a license to use the imagery, if they want to
continue using the data, they have to ensure they meet their contractual
obligations, if we have to run through a few hoops to ensure that we follow
their requirements which are based on their contractual obligations, we have
to, and I don't see the problem in that... Yes, having entirely free data
would be better, yes, having less restrictions would be easier, but, if the
data owner won't give us the time of day, but a licensee is willing to help
us, with some restrictions based on their contracts, it's all good in my

Again, I wish to thank you for the effort you've put into this and wish you
all the best with the, what is probably quite considerable, effort that you
will put into further managing this relationship...


On 30/03/07, Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Going to make this short, since already too much effort has been spent on
> this issue.
> I spend a lot of my own personal time trying to help OpenStreetMap. All of
> the viewpoints
> expressed on the use of Yahoo imagery are appreciated and understood ..
> and from my
> perspective most people really like that we have this option to work with.
> Others have
> pointed out problems, and I'm glad for that, and I will endeavor to clear
> up ambiguities and
> open issues as much as possible. However, a few people have objections,
> and are voicing
> those objections over and over, in lengthy dispiriting discussions. We are
> a community,
> and decision making is pretty ad hoc. If I sensed that a large group of
> OSMers had a problem
> with the Yahoo imagery, then I'd respect that and drop it. But rather, we
> have dissenting
> opinions which can't accept that not everyone agrees with them.
> This kind of disagreement happens with great regularity on OSM. I've
> weathered a few in my
> time, and while unsurprising, my tolerance is lower than ever. It's
> extremely tempting to
> walk away and give up in the face of such disfunction. I'm not crying out
> for attention here,
> I'm simply saying that the next time there's such an unreasonable and
> endless discussion,
> I'm not sure I'll be around to see it through.
> So please stop. Simple. If you have something more to say on the subject,
> channel that
> into the wiki page on Yahoo Imagery .. briefly and with NPV.
> Now I'm going to try and recover some excitement for this thing.
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
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