[OSM-talk] Old or dialectal names

Wed Feb 6 17:27:13 GMT 2008

Hi!

This message went in error to Dave Stubbs only, sorry Dave. I'm half 
asleep and I when I'm like this I often press the wrong button :)

======================

A small and humble correction: names are not "dialectal" as Piedmontese 
is a full-fledged ISO 639-3 language (code PMS) and it is recognized as 
"regional language" in the Statutory Chart of the Piedmont Region :) 
It's also taught in state schools to thousands children in the last 
years. So it does have a well defined standard orthography, too.

You might want to check your orthography with the guys at 
http://pms.wikipedia.org  (just get to the article about the 
town/village you are mapping and enter your requests in the discussion, 
or directly on the article, if you can write proper  piedmontese). If 
you look for a less "encyclopedic" sire you can go here: 
http://pms.i-iter.org/ I'm sure people will be eager to help you. In 
both sites you will find an Open Source piedmontese keyboard for both a 
standard american ANSI kb or an italian keyboard.

For the case you are stating there is only a couple of minor mistakes, 
the correct form is "Contrà ëd mes" (as È is pronounced as in  french 
Cafè, or in "Piemontèis").  Usually in the Turin area roads  are called 
"Contrà", while when you move north towards Biela  you frequently meet 
the term "Rua". Canals (not navigable) are usually called "Bialera", 
small rivers are "Dòire". A full list of piedmontese toponims and a 
first list of some local toponims is available here:
http://pms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor%C3%ACa:Borgh_e_sit%C3%A0_d%C3%ABl_Piemont 

you are very much welcome in extending it with road names etc :) It 
would very nice and welcome if you put references to the openstreetmaps 
with piedmontese toponims in it in the articles, too :)
You can drop me a line here: 
http://pms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciaciarade:B%C3%A8rto_%27d_S%C3%A8ra if 
you need any assistance.

Thank you for your time and work!
Bèrto

============

wiseLYNX: I gather you and I speak the same language so...

S'it veule ansima a pms-i-iter as peul deurb-se na lista postal a pòsta 
për sossì. A-i é gnun problema a felo e butand an consideran che vàire 
gent a-i passa dzora tuti ij dì a l'é belfé che prest ò tard it treuve 
cheidun ch'at giuta. Tut sùbin tant tràfich a farà nen, ma se për esempi 
it ëscrive ant la lista tut lòn ch'it fase col temp la gent a taca a 
scriv-te ij nòm dle stra 'd sò pais. Bele che se a-i fussa nen ël temp 
material për ëscriv-je dlongh ant le carte, a resterìo sempe lì marcà 
për ël dì che 'l temp a-i sia :)

As peul adcò fé un cit club ant sla wiki, andoava che is coordinoma. Ël 
censiment dij topònim a l'é un-a dle priorità, përchè soèns a-i son bele 
mach pì ij vej ch'as viso ëd com as ciamèisso ij pòst, anans ch'a-j 
cambièisso nòm. Donca a venta fé ampressa a ciapeje e salveje, fin ch'i 
soma an temp a felo.

Për esperiensa, ij proget an piemontèis për sòlit a parto lent, però a 
chërso bastansa bin. A fé na cita comun-a d'utent ativ it-i bute squasi 
n'ann antregh, però la gent as treuva, e për sòlit a l'r gent ch'a l'ha 
gnun problema a buté euli 'd gomo fin ch'a basta. Prest a-i sarà 
n'ancontr dla wikipedia piemontèisa col pùblich, e a podrìa esse 
l'ocasion për presenté tò proget, s'at anteressa felo.

Fame savej
Bèrto :)

Dave Stubbs ?????:
> On Feb 6, 2008 1:39 PM, wiseLYNX <wiselynx.naima at fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>   
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I'm new to th OSM project, but I'm getting quite involved, as Torino
>> (Italy), where I live, is well covered with Yahoo aerials, and it's
>> quite effortless to fill in the neighborhoods of my home (which of
>> course I know very well, and I don't need to go around GPSing).
>>
>> I have a question: I'm planning, as soon I'll be able, to insert maps
>> for a little town in the countryside, but I already know I'll have a
>> little issue. The place has streets and places called with "new" names,
>> given (I suppose) during the last century, but there are also (and
>> mainly) known with their older names. As an example, the streen were now
>> called Via Garibaldi, was called "Contrà ad mès" (middleway street, in
>> the local dialect). The local administration is trying to recover these
>> old names, and on plaques with street names are now showing both the new
>> and the old ones.
>>
>> This issue anyway applies also in a number of other cases, where a place
>> is nown with an official but less used name, and an unofficial better
>> known one.
>>
>> Is there a way to add this kind of information in OSM? I believe simply
>> putting the "other" name in parenthesis isn't the best solution..
>>     
>
> If you look at the bottom end of Map Features on the wiki you can see
> a variety of tags for names which might be useful. In particular
> old_name and loc_name may be what you want.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features#Name
>
>
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>   

wiseLYNX ?????:
> Michael Collinson wrote:
>   
>> Enrico,
>>
>> Welcome!  I've ancestors from not far north of 
>> Torino so I glad to see mapping activity there.
>>     
>
> fine to hear, you know where they were from? I'm trying to involve some
> friends and collegues of mine in the project, so it may be possible
> other areas in Piemonte will be mapped.
>
>   
>> These tags may be what you need:
>>
>> old_name - Old name
>> loc_name - Local name
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features - see Name section
>>
>> I don't they are yet rendered out on the 
>> www.openstreetmap.org views, but at least the 
>> information will be captured for feature use.
>>
>> Also, purely speculatively, I wonder if the 
>> dialect is supported as an ISO 3-letter code?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-3_codes
>>     
>
> a quick serach resulted in this:
>
> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=pms
>
>
>   
>> We've been using 2-letter codes, so the following might be possible:
>>
>> name:it=Via Garibaldi
>> name:xyz=Contrà ad mès
>>     
>
> so if the format name:isocode is ok, I'll put old names that way.
>
> thanks averybody for the fast and complete reply!
>
> Enrico
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> talk at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>   

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