[OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine

Cartinus cartinus at xs4all.nl
Thu Aug 2 23:22:23 BST 2012

I read the whole mess on the mailinglists en de wiki.

The point you are completely missing is that unless there is a conflict
the local community can't resolve, the DWG won't get involved at all.

If you had followed the whole thread, then you could have seen that e.g.
The mappers in Brussels have decided on a solution that works for them.
Other bi- or multilingual areas chose different solutions. Nobody
(including the DWG) is forcing them to use a worldwide single approach.

A single vandal from outside the area (as that is what you "propose" to
do in the whole ex-USSR) messing around is something a local community
can easily fix themselves.


One person, however isolated he is living, is never a community. You
need more people for that.

If a single city has a dedicated group of mappers, then that is a
community. If there is only an active mapper in every fifth city in the
country, then the local community is obviously bigger than one city.

On 08/02/2012 11:40 PM, iONiX wrote:
> On 02.08.2012 23:10, Cartinus wrote:
>> On 08/02/2012 09:47 PM, iONiX wrote:
>>> On 02.08.2012 21:38, Lester Caine wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>> If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all exUSSR
>>>>> countries and change every object name tag to whatever is mentioned on
>>>>> signs?
>>>> If they are currently NOT showing what is on the sign then YES, and in
>>>> my book that is not even up for discussion!
>>>> If I can't photograph what appears on the base map ... it's wrong, and
>>>> should be tagged as that so it can be fixed ...
>>>> If there IS no sign, then it's obviously a matter for argument what is
>>>> used, and it that case I'd prefer not to render anything since that is
>>>> the case on the ground. Translated options for names can then be freely
>>>> used for translated maps.
>>> Ok, than I want to see, what community will be first to report me to DWG.
>> Are you the _local_ community in all those places? Don't think so.
> So, "truth on the ground" rule applies only to mappers from local
> community? Other mappers have no right to apply this rule? If I saw
> those signs in a vacation trip, or I use other free sources, am I not
> allowed to change them?
> By the way, have You read DWG decision? Clearly no.
> [quote]
> It is not sufficient to execute some kind of proposal process and say
> "you can participate in the vote if you want". We acknowledge that this
> is difficult, especially given the rather un-civil way in which some
> Crimea mappers have behaved in this discussion, but if they are not
> included in the solution then the problem cannot be resolved.
> [/quote]
> How community is defined? Are one person in some suburb or desert
> community? If so, he can establish any policies he want. And when he is
> not cooperative with rest of bigger community, than they have to accept
> his decision.
> Do I have be anywhere locally to be part of community? What if I tell
> You, I am living in Amsterdam? I find some more people, we decide to tag
> buildings with "place_to_sleep" in our suburb/town/region? How the rest
> of dutch community will react?
> I am trying to show that there are much bigger problem with name tag in
> many parts of the world, not only Ukraine!
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