[OSM-talk] Dropping out, was: New OSM Quick-Fix service

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Frederik, once again you are using your position and mailing list as a
tribune, speaking to others instead of speaking to me.  I posted [1] my
initial idea/tool, and you immediately wrote a large, mostly personal
attack [2], rather than something like [3] - which also criticized, but
helped guide it forward. Most of the issues you mention in [2] have long
been addressed, but you don't care to discuss the actual changes - you
already made up your mind that it's evil, and you haven't replied to a
single attempt at a substantive communication. I even offered to video talk
to you directly, hoping that an understanding could be reached, but alas.

I think your emails strongly polarized community.  I kept changing and
adapting Sophox based on the received feedback, including yours. I don't
think you have ever changed the rhetoric or tried to gain understanding or
a compromise. People come to the project, bring new ideas, and try to fix
issues they see as important to them. Instead of trying to understand and
adapt, several hard-liners have taken the "this is not how it's done around
here" approach, and forced people out.

Accusations are easy - we can spew them thousands at a time. Refuting them
one by one takes much more effort. Saying that I jump topics many times
doesn't make it so.  I am very consistently discussing just one thing -
Sophox [4], and how it can help make OSM better. Tons of people want to
runs bots on OSM, but Sophox tries to find a safe middle ground between
bots and humans, addressing the problems that are clearly there (otherwise
all these tools wouldn't have been created).

[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079145.html
[2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079146.html
[3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/079172.html
[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 11/13/2017 10:58 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument.
>
> Yuri, I think at this point it is time for me to stop reading your
> contributions here. You are not genuinely trying to understand; this is
> just a smoke-screen. You are trying to win an argument here by cleverly
> jumping from topic to topic, putting words in people's mouths, and if
> that's not enough you try to simply write 20x more than anybody else
> hoping to wear everyone out.
>
> This mailing list is not a high school debate club, however much you
> treat it like one, and you've abused OpenStreetMap as your playground
> for far too long already starting when you first lied to me about
> stopping your mass wikidata tag additions. I'm tired of it and I won't
> make any further attempts to explain things to you.
>
> Just in case you are tempted to interpret future silence from me as a
> silent agreement - don't. Ever.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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>
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